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Discussion Starter #1
Hey Folks,
I am looking for some PV and WinPV help/education. The bike seems to run great except for decel. Below are the conditions I am talking about. I have no experience with this but I am very willing to learn. Any help would be AWESOME!!!

I am getting a nasty pop when I am hard on the throttle and go to up shift.
On Decel I get a gurgle with minimal popping
Where do I make the changes in WinPV and do I go richer or leaner?
I can provide screen shots of tables if it will help you help me. Just let me know what you need to see.

I have checked for exhaust leaks every way I know how and came up with nothing. Even had a second set of eyes/ears (a competent friend) help me.

Smoke Test exhaust plugged using
  • cigarette
  • cigar
  • smoke pen
Listening for Leaks
  • Human Ear
  • Stethoscope tool
Manualy
  • Sprayed brake cleaner at the exhaust flanges
  • Felt for leaks with exhaust blocked
Could I still have a leak and not be able to detect it?

My Steup
2012 FLTRX
103
FM Power Vision Map
FM Intake
FM header
HD Night Stick (Supertrapp) exhaust with NO end caps
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Call FM. Have you tried auto tune yet?
I did call FM, they sent me a new map. I installed the new map and it still did it. I emailed Jamie again and he asked me to check cross over for leaks. I did that and re torqued it to the correct spec. I went for a super short ride it seemed to have stop. I thanked him via email but the next time I had my bike out, it was there. UGH

Maybe I just need to re check for a fifth time? Maybe I'm missing something?

Yes I ran auto tune this weekend. From what I hear it does nothing to stop these issues.

I know I can figure this out I refuse to give up LOL
 

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Rhino,
Are the symptoms you describe better or worse at different engine temps. For instance, is the pop on shift more likely to occur when running at full eng. temp after considerable riding time or shortly after engine warms up?
 

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Do more Autotune runs. Run autotune, export the tune, then load that tune and enable AT again, repeat a few times. Changes will become more subtle after a few passes.

Intentionally make the bike pop and gurgle as much as possible. You need more hits in the cell that needs attention before the changes will be applied. You can configure the hit count to a lower number, I think default is 50 hits before PV includes it. Remember when you are autotuning you are running .981/14.6 air fuel for everything below 80KPa. So some popping is likely on upshift and decel with really free flowing pipes.

What pipes and mufflers do you have? What cam? (although it looks stock or low end biased cam from your VE's)

<edit> OOPS... my reading comprehension strikes again... FM head pipe, open supertrapp...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Rhino,
Are the symptoms you describe better or worse at different engine temps. For instance, is the pop on shift more likely to occur when running at full eng. temp after considerable riding time or shortly after engine warms up?
At full running temps.

I just got off the phone with Jamie at FM. Man he is a good guy. He said we will get it worked out and not to worry. I will keep you folks up to date.

But I still want to learn!!
 

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Keep us posted!

I've been reading everything and anything I can find out there... unfortunately most of the info available is aligned with the standard AFR/throttle position tuning. Our new bikes are using Lambda and KPa... keeping things straight has kept me scratching my head a ton...

Even reading the latest TTS user guide will give you a bunch of helpful information. Just remember that TTS has some differences in table names. For the most part, PV, SERT and TTS are populating the same tables on the ECM.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Do more Autotune runs. Run autotune, export the tune, then load that tune and enable AT again, repeat a few times. Changes will become more subtle after a few passes.

Intentionally make the bike pop and gurgle as much as possible. You need more hits in the cell that needs attention before the changes will be applied. You can configure the hit count to a lower number, I think default is 50 hits before PV includes it. Remember when you are autotuning you are running .981/14.6 air fuel for everything below 80KPa. So some popping is likely on upshift and decel with really free flowing pipes.

What pipes and mufflers do you have? What cam? (although it looks stock or low end biased cam from your VE's)

<edit> OOPS... my reading comprehension strikes again... FM head pipe, open supertrapp...
Yes you are correct on the set up. Stock Cams for now FM header/FM Intake/Nightstick no end caps (supertrapp)
I will do what you said it makes scene. I will load the new tune Jamie sends me and auto tune the heck out of it. When I did the last one I had a huge amount of red cells which is good.
 

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I will be interested to see what changes Jamie makes to solve your problem. I would increase the acceleration enrichment by 10 percent in the 112 and 128 temp range to address the up-shift pop. Then test ride to check for improvement.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I will be interested to see what changes Jamie makes to solve your problem. I would increase the acceleration enrichment by 10 percent in the 112 and 128 temp range to address the up-shift pop. Then test ride to check for improvement.
I will post the tables when I get them back if they solve the issue.

Again Thanks for all your help guys!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Another thing I was thinking about. The Up Shift pop happens at full temp. When running AT its always right from the get go. After I get the new map from FM I will make sure its at FULL Operating Temp Before I start running AT.

Maybe do it a few times a day for a few days. Well as long as the weather conditions are about the same.

I figure I will need HOT day and COLD day tunes being the weather here in Chicago changes so drastically over the seasons.
 

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Subscribed. Having very similar issues.
 

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Another thing I was thinking about. The Up Shift pop happens at full temp. When running AT its always right from the get go. After I get the new map from FM I will make sure its at FULL Operating Temp Before I start running AT.

Maybe do it a few times a day for a few days. Well as long as the weather conditions are about the same.

I figure I will need HOT day and COLD day tunes being the weather here in Chicago changes so drastically over the seasons.
Activating AT has no effect on how the motor runs while in the AT mode. When you select the AT function the Powervision is building new VE parameters as you ride, but does NOT make any change to the map it is tuning until you apply those changes at the end of the AT session. Unless the temperature is dramatically different it will have very little effect on the AT process. The only changes normally made to a tune map pertaining to ambient air temp. are ignition timing. Cold weather will allow you to be more aggressive with timing advance compared to the summer heat.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Activating AT has no effect on how the motor runs while in the AT mode. When you select the AT function the Powervision is building new VE parameters as you ride, but does NOT make any change to the map it is tuning until you apply those changes at the end of the AT session. Unless the temperature is dramatically different it will have very little effect on the AT process. The only changes normally made to a tune map pertaining to ambient air temp. are ignition timing. Cold weather will allow you to be more aggressive with timing advance compared to the summer heat.
I noticed that some of the cells get populated (red) BEFORE I get to full operating temp. Not when ice cold but warm. I will keep a closer eye on it next time.

I do get the part where it generates a new map that needs to be flashed to the ECM before any changes are actually applied.

Good to know about the ambient temp and timing. I am going to take this one step at a time. Going to get it running right then move forward from there ;)
 

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Activating AT has no effect on how the motor runs while in the AT mode. When you select the AT function the Powervision is building new VE parameters as you ride, but does NOT make any change to the map it is tuning until you apply those changes at the end of the AT session. Unless the temperature is dramatically different it will have very little effect on the AT process. The only changes normally made to a tune map pertaining to ambient air temp. are ignition timing. Cold weather will allow you to be more aggressive with timing advance compared to the summer heat.
This is not quite right. When you enable Autotune, the PV automatically applies the necessary tuning parameters that used to require manual change, ie change all cells in Air Fuel to .981/14.6 and alters a few other areas, PE for one. This is why running in Autotune mode needs you to be careful not to over heat. Because you will be running hotter than hell if you aren't careful. I have ended up running on one lung when at stop lights in no time fla

Also, Rhino, don't get the engine up to FULL operating temp because AT will also disable when head temps are above 310 degrees as I recall. When I'm in AT mode, head temps are quickly in 290's...

If it's popping when fully hot it sounds like you just need more fuel in the area you're having the issues. Keep track of rpm just in case it moves around.
 

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This is not quite right. When you enable Autotune, the PV automatically applies the necessary tuning parameters that used to require manual change, ie change all cells in Air Fuel to .981/14.6 and alters a few other areas, PE for one. This is why running in Autotune mode needs you to be careful not to over heat. Because you will be running hotter than hell if you aren't careful. I have ended up running on one lung when at stop lights in no time fla

Also, Rhino, don't get the engine up to FULL operating temp because AT will also disable when head temps are above 310 degrees as I recall. When I'm in AT mode, head temps are quickly in 290's...

If it's popping when fully hot it sounds like you just need more fuel in the area you're having the issues. Keep track of rpm just in case it moves around.
I learned a long time ago not to argue on the internet. I would suggest you call Jamie and ask if that statement is correct.
 

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I learned a long time ago not to argue on the internet. I would suggest you call Jamie and ask if that statement is correct.
I certainly wasn't trying to argue. I was just expressing my understanding of how PowerVision enables AT. I would also welcome Jamies input on this.

Respectfully, from WinPV Help contents:
"Neither AutoTune Basic nor AutoTune Pro requires that you interface with a computer. Power Vision sets up the AutoTune parameters, monitors and logs the data, and then corrects the tune to ensure that the final tune has optimum values in the VE table(s)."

Previous to AT basic (before my time, but what most of the interweb topics discusss) you needed to take a may you want to tune, modify the AFR tables to put the entire map below 80KPa in closed loop mode, back the timing off 4 degrees across the board in timing tables, disable PE and a couple other things I believe. Using Autotune Basic, the PV does this when you Enable AT, when you click Enable AT, it reflashes your ECM and until you disable AT, you're running on the AT mod'd map. If you don't Export Tune, and just Disable AT, it will once again ask you to select a tune to flash to the ECM.

Anyway... Was just trying to clarify this. You can't do any autotuning with the stock Narrow band sensors unless you are in closed loop.

Where's the raised beer smilley? Cheers guys
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Ok I got a new map from Jamie at FM WAY better! I still have a slight crack at 4000 from 1st through 3rd. I sent it back to Jamie to see if he can tweak it more.

Their customer service is awesome. Jamie has my business for life. I just ordered the full size ceramic coated crossover to boot...

Once it's right I will post the compares here.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Well I got the 2 new maps from Jamie today. The 1st was close the 2nd turns out to be awesome. A few autotune runs and it will be dialed in. The decel pops are gone and up shift pops are gone too. Well I got one in 2 hours of riding.

Here are the Delta Views (each table he changed) original map vs the last one that works.




 
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