[JacktheBagger]

So whats the diff between the two aside from the PV having the handlebar controls ?? Do both have the same tuning abilities ?? website doesn't really say one way or the other ..

Looking at doing one of the powerpackage deals .

TIA

 

[Big_gary]

So whats the diff between the two aside from the PV having the handlebar controls ?? Do both have the same tuning abilities ?? website doesn't really say one way or the other ..

Looking at doing one of the powerpackage deals .

TIA

Never thought you'd be bit by the bug.

 

[mocotom]

The PV is a flash tuner which means it will actually alter the parameters of the ECM. The PCV is an inline unit that is installed between the ECM and it's input cable. It alters the information going to the ECM and therefore change it's output. Both are good tuning devices and have pro's and cons. The PCV must stay on the bike, the PV can flash the ECM and then be removed.

 

[JacktheBagger]

Never thought you'd be bit by the bug.

first two werds second line :

looking at , putz

 

[unbalanced]

PV tunes under the Delphi system parameters and the pcv is an alpha N system. I prefer managing as designed using the pressurized manifold over a piggyback device.


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[Darreldanger]

?

PV tunes under the Delphi system parameters and the pcv is an alpha N system. I prefer managing as designed using the pressurized manifold over a piggyback device


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Say What?

 

[unbalanced]

Say What?

Darreldanger,

What doesnt make sense? Your bike if it is Fuel Injected is based off Delphi's pressurized manifold system. The powervision is able to update/change/reprogram your ecm directly by changing Volumetrics, tuning constants, settings, and much much more.

When you use a powercommander 5 it is a piggy back unit that is in line and considered an Alpha N system. RPM and percentage throttle vs. RPM and kPa on the pressurized sytem. The PC5 always has to be attached and it "interprets" for the ecm and sends data and the ecm reacts based on the feedback from the PC5. The PV updates the data by reprogramming the ecm and is then removed.

Hope that helps, maybe just made it worse.

 

['05Train]

Darreldanger,

What doesnt make sense? Your bike if it is Fuel Injected is based off Delphi's pressurized manifold system. The powervision is able to update/change/reprogram your ecm directly by changing Volumetrics, tuning constants, settings, and much much more.

When you use a powercommander 5 it is a piggy back unit that is in line and considered an Alpha N system. RPM and percentage throttle vs. RPM and kPa on the pressurized sytem. The PC5 always has to be attached and it "interprets" for the ecm and sends data and the ecm reacts based on the feedback from the PC5. The PV updates the data by reprogramming the ecm and is then removed.

Hope that helps, maybe just made it worse.

It makes it worse, as it's not correct. Your bike doesn't care what you use; it hasn't used Alpha-N since 2009. In 2010 the Touring line received updated fuel injection. The maps went from TPS-based to MAP-based.

The PC uses offsets to trick the ECM, but the bike is still basing its decisions on TPS and MAP (as well as a slew of other things). If you use a PC you are not reverting back to Alpha-N.

 

[JacktheBagger]

another way of looking at is , the PV reflashes your ECM with a different map and therefore can be removed after flashing .. The PC is placed inline with the ECM and sends info to the ECM to alter inputs to the stock ECM , the ECM isnt changed , only tricked ..

 

[unbalanced]

Train

Harley hasn't used alpha n in their Delphi based ECM it's always been based off map kPa on the Delphi systems as least since 2002 that I have had. It's the power commander that is an alpha n device. Not sure what change your referring to or that happened in 2009/2010 as the maps still use kPa and rpm on the PV, SESPT, TTS, Direct Link as they have since the release of the SERT. They did go to lambda and narrow bands but that did not change the tuning.

MAP = kPa, so not sure what you are referring to. As can see as early as 4.77 of the SERT built by Steve Cole you will see they used kPa as the standard. Where PC has used throttle position and percent of throttle position depending on which version of the power commander you are talking about. They changed the visual in the PC5 along the way to change the nomenclature. I will also post up a screenshot of the TTS showing kPa.

 

[Big_gary]

another way of looking at is , the PV reflashes your ECM with a different map and therefore can be removed after flashing .. The PC is placed inline with the ECM and sends info to the ECM to alter inputs to the stock ECM , the ECM isnt changed , only tricked ..

The PV also utilises the 02 sensors input, the PCV does not.

 

['05Train]

Unbalanced,

In 2010 Harley went to Lambda and the TTS VE maps went to KpA rather than TPS. There was no PV then, and I've never used one on a 2009.

And I stand corrected. The MM injection was Alpha-N. Delphi is speed/density.

 

['05Train]

And the PC isn't technically Alpha-N, even though it selects its offsets based on TPS.

The ECM/FI are what determines spark and fueling, the tuner just changes the signal.

 

[unbalanced]

TTS Screenshot as well.

 

[unbalanced]

Unbalanced,

In 2010 Harley went to Lambda and the TTS VE maps went to KpA rather than TPS. There was no PV then, and I've never used one on a 2009.

And I stand corrected. The MM injection was Alpha-N. Delphi is speed/density.

TTS has been kPa all along. Even as far back as the code in the SERT. Not a biggie, all are just trying to help folks get the best info we can.

In either case your going to spend money on a PC5 or something else imo its better to just tune the ECM versus having the piggy back PC5 item and leave it at that. again my opinion.

 

['05Train]

Negatory. TTS was TPS until the . MT 7 tunes. Plenty of screenshots of 2009-earlier VE tables out there, and they're all TPS on the horizontal axis.

 

[mocotom]

In 2009 Harley Delphi fuel injection went to a full on map (KPa) system. Prior years were based on a split system using TPS to calculate fuel adjustments and map sensor to control timing curve

 

[unbalanced]

I was speaking to air/fuel table and you are correct on VE's showing throttle Position percent in earlier version. Attached is the VE Table for the 09-later.

 

[staush]

pissing

Boys, we got us a real pissing match going on!

 

[unbalanced]

No pissing match just a discussion of technologies. Sorry to disappoint and really hope no one is butt hurt over the discussion.