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Discussion Starter #1
Thanks to the Orca post earlier I got turned on to RSRs fuel injection. It is a complete system that replaces the stock system using actual manifold pressure as opposed to downloadable maps that Harley is so happy to provide us with (for a price). One of the things I was way let down about when I bought my 2011 FLTRU is that it didn't come with an actual system that automatically made changes for better flowing components. The RSR system claims it isn't a set and forget system and you will need to make adjustments for maximum tunability but they do stress this is something you can do yourself if you have some mechanical ability especially if you add a fuel/air guage. It is expensive and it is bulky (the ecu needs to be mounted in front so it doesn't overheat) but I also think this is something the moco should have provided stock. Our cars and trucks come with this versatility. Why don't our bikes?
 

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I've read some more and they recommend TTS Master tune if you have throttle by wire as most of us do but they recommend the fuel/air gauge still to make your own adjustments. lol. I like these guys. I know that time on the dyno is money well spent but it doesn't address all of the riding aspects. Since I am one of the "stupid people" (whoever writes for RB cracks me up) who runs a PCV. I may just go and buy the fuel air gauge until I can afford the TTS system. My Rhinehart pipes have the upper and lower O2 sensor locations so I may just run the old style sensors close to the exhaust ports to run the guage and the newer style to run the TTS when the time comes. I'm about to retire but I can see I'm going to need a new job just to pay for all the shit I learn about here and on HTT. Some of this stuff is just crazy and makes me want to sell my newer bike to buy an older bike so I can build a built evo motor with the RS tuner which is basically just old Honda tech that works. :)
 

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"I know that time on the dyno is money well spent but it doesn't address all of the riding aspects."

Not true if the tuner is spending the required time. Good tuners cover all throttle positions set timing and afr in them.

I'm not sure if one changes exhaust, cams, and ports the heads on a car that it will auto tune to those changes.
 

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I just know a manifold pressure system is a lot better than what the moco is giving us or a mass air flow system. The systems in our cars and trucks automatically change as needed. I know there are other things that need tinkering as you do more but right out of the box the bike shouldn't detonate.
 

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I just know a manifold pressure system is a lot better than what the moco is giving us or a mass air flow system. The systems in our cars and trucks automatically change as needed. I know there are other things that need tinkering as you do more but right out of the box the bike shouldn't detonate.
Norm, you need to back up just one second. In the automotive industry we have extremely well water cooled engines with multiple fans etc. Also we are talking about 4 and 5 valve overhead cams, etc. You can do so much more with all of this helping with tuning. It allows you to run a very lean mixture and temps still stay low which still gives you good power and great fuel mileage. A lot more goes into it then what I"m explaining but you get the jest of it. With a harley engine, not are you not only dealing with a 45 degree engine with one crank journal, you are dealing with a pushrod geometry that is less than ideal. Now add two valve heads, air cooled ( I know we now have a water cooled exhaust jacket, minimal help) and limited space to improve on technology. Could Harley do something like the Dynojet Vision on the bike that lets you with the push of a button go from a cruising bike to more fuel and timing for sport or hi performance riding. Sure they could but in the scheme of things, I don't think that is necessary for the masses. When we do changes to our bikes, we need to think it thru and decide, are we gonna just do pipes, air cleaner and changes like that and be done with it? This is what most do. Then a simple flash or a piggy back tuner will suffice and give you years of satisfaction. Will it be 100% most power you can get out of that setup? No, but it will be close. Now for the rest of us that do cams, heads, throttle bodies, etc. Nothing beats a dyno tune and then that will give you many years of thrills.

To end on another note. If speak with any of the guys that are running some of the more sporty cars doing performance work, they are not just letting the cars computers do the adjustments. They are getting them dyno'd just like we do or doing an add on (piggy back tuning unit like I have on my Dodge Hemi 4x4 truck) to get more out of what they have. One size does not fit all. Good luck with your build and look forward to seeing your numbers when you are finished.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
It just looks a lot more tunable. I will get the TTS eventually. I like being able to get the most out of whatever I'm riding. I think step one will be that air/fuel gauge. I'm not knocking the value of a dynotune but I know it's only set for a single set of parameters. It can be 30 degrees here one day then 80 the next.
 

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It just looks a lot more tunable. I will get the TTS eventually. I like being able to get the most out of whatever I'm riding. I think step one will be that air/fuel gauge. I'm not knocking the value of a dynotune but I know it's only set for a single set of parameters. It can be 30 degrees here one day then 80 the next.
That's simply not true Norm. Once you dyno a bike, the values in all the boxes are as close to perfect as humanly and technically possible. Once that is achieved, the oxygen sensors adjust for altitude (amount of oxygen in the air) and keeps the a/f ratio where it's supposed to be. It doesn't matter if I ride up to Colorado in the mountains at 11,000 ft. or down by the ocean, my bike runs pretty close to the same in my opinion. Now if you change the cams or put a set of pipes that do not perform as well or perform better than the ones on with the dyno, you will need to have it dyno'd again. Good luck!
 

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You are overthinking this Norm , I've dealt with RB in the far distant past , they are decent guys , they have an in your face attitude , and they know what they are doing , they build LSR motors and Bonneville has been their passion for years , your money but I hate to see you throw it away on stuff you dont need .. AFR gauge isn't much good unless you can adjust on the fly , their FI system is probably ideal for Bonneville , where they can tweak it for everything it's worth , doubt there is much it can do , that TTS or any other tuner cant do ..
 

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Norm, you need to back up just one second. In the automotive industry we have extremely well water cooled engines with multiple fans etc. Also we are talking about 4 and 5 valve overhead cams, etc. You can do so much more with all of this helping with tuning. It allows you to run a very lean mixture and temps still stay low which still gives you good power and great fuel mileage. A lot more goes into it then what I"m explaining but you get the jest of it. With a harley engine, not are you not only dealing with a 45 degree engine with one crank journal, you are dealing with a pushrod geometry that is less than ideal. Now add two valve heads, air cooled ( I know we now have a water cooled exhaust jacket, minimal help) and limited space to improve on technology. Could Harley do something like the Dynojet Vision on the bike that lets you with the push of a button go from a cruising bike to more fuel and timing for sport or hi performance riding. Sure they could but in the scheme of things, I don't think that is necessary for the masses. When we do changes to our bikes, we need to think it thru and decide, are we gonna just do pipes, air cleaner and changes like that and be done with it? This is what most do. Then a simple flash or a piggy back tuner will suffice and give you years of satisfaction. Will it be 100% most power you can get out of that setup? No, but it will be close. Now for the rest of us that do cams, heads, throttle bodies, etc. Nothing beats a dyno tune and then that will give you many years of thrills.

To end on another note. If speak with any of the guys that are running some of the more sporty cars doing performance work, they are not just letting the cars computers do the adjustments. They are getting them dyno'd just like we do or doing an add on (piggy back tuning unit like I have on my Dodge Hemi 4x4 truck) to get more out of what they have. One size does not fit all. Good luck with your build and look forward to seeing your numbers when you are finished.
+1 I couldn't agree with you more
 

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Big norm:
There are also other ways to tune,if you were to look up Mr.Bruce Bean @ Big Boyz head porting he has a good article on his Web sight on the way he tunes (exaust gas analysis) good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the helpful replies as opposed to outright flames. I appreciate it.
 

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Big norm:
There are also other ways to tune,if you were to look up Mr.Bruce Bean @ Big Boyz head porting he has a good article on his Web sight on the way he tunes (exaust gas analysis) good luck.
That's why I want the fuel air meter. I know that I can't adjust it on the fly but it would add to my tuning knowledge. I had my bike dynotuned when I bought my PCV and it still wasn't perfect. I know the downfall of the PCV is that it doesn't use the O2 sensors. If I had the air/fuel sensor I would have better knowledge of the lean/rich condition and could make my adjustments accordingly. I think I'll get a notebook just for the changes and daily ambient tempertures ect.
 

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That's why I want the fuel air meter. I know that I can't adjust it on the fly but it would add to my tuning knowledge. I had my bike dynotuned when I bought my PCV and it still wasn't perfect. I know the downfall of the PCV is that it doesn't use the O2 sensors. If I had the air/fuel sensor I would have better knowledge of the lean/rich condition and could make my adjustments accordingly. I think I'll get a notebook just for the changes and daily ambient tempertures ect.
Why not consider a Daytona Twin Tec WEGO III with the wide band sensors. You could collect your data, interpret it and update your PCV based on the results. Simple to use hardest part of using it is the open air calibration of the sensors before you start.

Should save you a Lot of money, you would have data logging capabilities.
 

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Before you buy, don't count out the Dynojet Power Vision and it's companion Target Tune setup.
The PV/TT combo is the only flash tuner that gives you live data displayed on the screen, as well as
datalogging cababilities, and features live wide band tuning while riding.

Do your research, talk to the folks at Fuel Moto and make you decision.
 

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Why not consider a Daytona Twin Tec WEGO III with the wide band sensors. You could collect your data, interpret it and update your PCV based on the results. Simple to use hardest part of using it is the open air calibration of the sensors before you start.

Should save you a Lot of money, you would have data logging capabilities.
Actually, I see tuners with dyne's use the Daytona Twin Tech WEGOIII to make their dyno tuning much quicker. Really good piece of equipment. I went to their seminar at the V-Twom Expo
 

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Actually, I see tuners with dyne's use the Daytona Twin Tech WEGOIII to make their dyno tuning much quicker. Really good piece of equipment. I went to their seminar at the V-Twom Expo
Smarty you are correct. I know several tuners that utilize it in addition to the their dyno. I am lucky Daytona Sensor is just 20 minutes up the road from me in Daytona if i need ever need replacement sensors and such. Allen and team have always been great to work with.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
That's a nice looking tool. I like the one on RBR's site because I could just mount it to the handlebar and see how the afr is doing at any given moment. 2 hours on a dyno is probably a good idea too.
 

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That's a nice looking tool. I like the one on RBR's site because I could just mount it to the handlebar and see how the afr is doing at any given moment. 2 hours on a dyno is probably a good idea too.

Make sure that any AFR or lambda gauge you get has the ability to datalog and software available to display the data in graphical form.
Why?? Because the numbers displayed on a gauge are ever-changing at a rapid rate and virtually useless when viewing by eye, even under long steady throttle conditions.
 
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