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Discussion Starter #1
So, I'm going to have to do something with my motor this winter. It's eating lifters (4 sets in 34K miles and it needs another set) and it's using a bit of oil. I've been going over several options and looking for guidance.

I talked to Frank today and he was a big help. I'm leaning toward simply trailering the bike up there and letting him go through it. However, he's a long way away (700 miles). My other option I'm considering is an S&S 111 or 124. I could get that locally. So, for roughly the same budget, here are my options:

Option 1: Frank would do the Diablo 106 kit; the lower end would be taken care of (crank/bearings/etc). New pistons, cylinders, AIM clutch, Frank's 580 cam... etc. I know it would be done right. I'd have to trailer the bike up there and drop it off. Drive home and return to pick it up in a few weeks.

Option 2: S&S T111 or T124 crate motor. I could get this locally. All in, this option would cost a little more up front, but then I wouldn't have the expense of 2 1400 mile round trips, so it would probably be a wash. The drawbacks in my mind are 1) My local indy seems ok, but he doesn't do any tuning and 2) there are no tuners here that I've heard much good about.

For now, I'm planning to put yet another set of lifters in the bike just to get me through the rest of the riding season. I've already got the parts on order and I'm planning to do it this weekend.

Opinions, thoughts, more options?
 

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You're right the expense of hauling a trailer 1400 miles is not insignificant. Maybe ask Frank if he could do an exchange. If he had a built Twin Cam ready to go, you could probably get it swapped out in one trip.

While the S&S crate motor is attractive, I agree the lack of tuners is a problem. What device do you use? Maybe S&S will provide a tune with the purchase of the motor.

You could also check out GMR in Ft Worth. They're highly recommended on other boards and only about 5 hours from you.
 

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S&S 124 crate motor. That's what I went with. You get a 1 year warranty from a company that stands behind their product.

I built two 107's and wasn't happy with the results. I got tired of chasing numbers and picked up the phone and called my buddy's shop.

I got it in 9 days. I went with a 124lc and I couldn't be happier. I haven't got it tuned yet. I'm running a canned map the auto tune and this thing flat out runs. I'm thrilled. And at the end it wasn't that expensive. I got a warranty and piece of mind.




If you want his number pm me.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
You're right the expense of hauling a trailer 1400 miles is not insignificant. Maybe ask Frank if he could do an exchange. If he had a built Twin Cam ready to go, you could probably get it swapped out in one trip.

While the S&S crate motor is attractive, I agree the lack of tuners is a problem. What device do you use? Maybe S&S will provide a tune with the purchase of the motor.

You could also check out GMR in Ft Worth. They're highly recommended on other boards and only about 5 hours from you.
Thanks Redbeard. I'm using a Power Vision for a tuner. I'm actually also considering GMR, or VTwin Solutions (Loyd) in Allen TX as well. I've talked to both of them and they recommend a big inch build (113 or 117), but that comes with a bigger budget too. :) They are definitely options as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
S&S 124 crate motor. That's what I went with. You get a 1 year warranty from a company that stands behind their product. I'm not saying anything is wrong with dragos. Frank is a stand up guy. I have spent a good bit of money with him. I would use him over any other shop.-

I built two 107's and wasn't happy with the results. I got tired of chasing numbers and picked up the phone and called my buddy's shop.

I got it in 9 days. I went with a 124lc and I couldn't be happier. I haven't got it tuned yet. I'm running a canned map the auto tune and this thing flat out runs. I'm thrilled. And at the end it wasn't that expensive. I got a warranty and piece of mind.

If you want his number pm me.
PM sent.
 

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I have been down both roads with the Skunk (Frank did not build my motor though). This is what I will tell you, never again will I do a rebuild, especially with multiple vendors supplying different components. Everybody points the finger at everybody else.

S&S is one phone number ~ 124 1 year warranty unluess you purchase their throttle body and electronics, then it is a two year warranty.

I use a Power Vision, downloaded the map from S&S, bike ran great. I have tweaked the map with AT Pro.

The issue is I ended up spending more on my built 113 than the assembled 124. The 113 ran great for 36k when my Silver Moon Crank let go. Could be silver moons fault, could be feulings camplate/oil pump, could be the woods lifter, who knows. What I do know is I was not about to do a build again, drop in S&S 124, one phone number for a year. My instinct is if the 124 makes it a year (45-50k for me), It will probably be fine.

If you spec'd S&S's motor you would spend about 12k on parts alone. The assembled motor is a deal.
 

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well i would say 124 but if you dont have a tuner locally then up the build to a 117 and let Frank do it. In the long run you will be happier with a properly built and tuned bike. Not really sure where the 12k for parts came from, the 124 from S&S parts is only about 4300.00.. You will need to get a new TB or have one ported.

Another Option is Frank has bolt in motors as well..

I wouldnt waste your time with a shop that is recommended or doesnt tune. You have to know what they have done and go from there. Believe me I been down that road before. Franks builds have been proven and tested over and over.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks to all who've replied so far. I've followed all of your builds on the forum here and i respect your opinions. So... much appreciated.

The fact that y'all don't necessarily agree, ain't making this any easier. :)

How about if i add that what I'm really looking for is great, but not monster performance. More importantly, I'm looking for something that'll run solid for the next 50 to 75 thousand miles.

Does that change anyone's opinion?

Anyone else like to weigh in?
 

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How much oil are you burning??
If it isn't much than just get some good lifters and make sure your adjustable pushrods are adjusted right.
Everyone is going to suggest big money options but I am going to tell you how to do a rebuild CHEAP.
If you have basic mechanic ability all you will need is a HD service manual, basic hand tools and a 3/8 drive torque wrench and a 4 inch hose clamp (ring compressor).

Doing the disassembly/assembly yourself you pull the top end down and take the heads and cylinders to the local auto machine shop and they will bore the cylinders .010 over for a $100 and they will clean up your heads and grind the valves and valve seats for $100 you will have to provide the valve seals.
Contact a good parts source (I use PC Pain at Horny Toad HD) and buy a set of 103 .010 over pistons (pistons come with SS rings) for $250 and top end gaskets kit for $60 and put your top end back together.
You have around $500 +/- doing the top end yourself and it is a hell of a lot cheaper than the other options.
Of course any other components such as cams or lifters will bump the price up depending on the cost of those parts but it still will be under a $1000 for a complete top end rebuild if you put in new cams and lifters and if you do it right it will run great and not burn oil.
A top end is real easy to do and unless you are putting in a big HP build leave the lower end (crank) alone it will be fine.

Been there done that and this is a good way to save $$$.
 

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One thing we never talked about we build 124 crate engines with 1 year warranty from Dragos bike works.
Starting at 6250.00 with new cases don't need anything from old motor.
All the specs are in my vendor section.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
One thing we never talked about we build 124 crate engines with 1 year warranty from Dragos bike works.
Starting at 6250.00 with new cases don't need anything from old motor.
All the specs are in my vendor section.
Awesome Frank, thanks. I do have some questions. I'll give you a call this week to discuss.
 

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So, I'm going to have to do something with my motor this winter. It's eating lifters (4 sets in 34K miles and it needs another set) and it's using a bit of oil. I've been going over several options and looking for guidance.

I talked to Frank today and he was a big help. I'm leaning toward simply trailering the bike up there and letting him go through it. However, he's a long way away (700 miles). My other option I'm considering is an S&S 111 or 124. I could get that locally. So, for roughly the same budget, here are my options:

Option 1: Frank would do the Diablo 106 kit; the lower end would be taken care of (crank/bearings/etc). New pistons, cylinders, AIM clutch, Frank's 580 cam... etc. I know it would be done right. I'd have to trailer the bike up there and drop it off. Drive home and return to pick it up in a few weeks.

Option 2: S&S T111 or T124 crate motor. I could get this locally. All in, this option would cost a little more up front, but then I wouldn't have the expense of 2 1400 mile round trips, so it would probably be a wash. The drawbacks in my mind are 1) My local indy seems ok, but he doesn't do any tuning and 2) there are no tuners here that I've heard much good about.

For now, I'm planning to put yet another set of lifters in the bike just to get me through the rest of the riding season. I've already got the parts on order and I'm planning to do it this weekend.

Opinions, thoughts, more options?
What cam, lifters and oil
are you using?
 

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go with the LC S&S or let Frank build you the LC motor .. The LC motor definitely performs and will last as long as you don't want to squeeze every last bit out of it

JtB
 

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well i would say 124 but if you dont have a tuner locally then up the build to a 117 and let Frank do it. In the long run you will be happier with a properly built and tuned bike. Not really sure where the 12k for parts came from, the 124 from S&S parts is only about 4300.00.. You will need to get a new TB or have one ported.

Another Option is Frank has bolt in motors as well..

I wouldnt waste your time with a shop that is recommended or doesnt tune. You have to know what they have done and go from there. Believe me I been down that road before. Franks builds have been proven and tested over and over.
Talking about complete parts including the cam chest, crank, Top to bottom, the only thing I had to add was the Intake/TB/Pipes and air cleaner.

I purchased the assemble motor for under 6k.
 

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One more option: Were I a more conservative (and smarter) man, I'd go for the 2014 take off 103 with 7 miles on it that's on ebay right now. http://www.ebay.com/itm/181475358549?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
Hell no. Same crappy HD parts that's in your other one. If you want to do it on the cheap send the bottom end to frank and have him do his magic to it. Add a 106 or 107 top end add his 580 cam and s&s lifters and enjoy.i had his 580 cam before I got my 124 and I loved that cam.

I talked to Frank yesterday for a while(when I was ordering my 3rd drago pipe) his 124 sounds like a winner. We talked about the s&s 124 and his 124. Same warranty as s&s . All new parts and it sound like it RUNs like a raped ape.

Frank has a few options you can choose.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks Pat. I needed someone to clear my head of that stock 103. Thanks for talking me down off the ledge. :)
 

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Frank has a Great Reputation!! I'm sure that he earns it everyday!! If I was in the NE, Drago's would have definitely been on my short list!

I did tons of research when spec'ing the 117 Build, and like JayKS, was not wanting a monster motor, just a durable, reliable, Sport Touring powerplant, and have what I (and others in the know) consider to be the best components available at the time in it. The 117 runs great, uses no oil, and is quiet (so far at >6k mi.) (has S&S Crank (.0005 installed w/Timkin), Lifters & Roller Rockers)

BUT;
If I'd known that S&S was coming out with the 124 in Granite, before I reached the point of no return with the 117, the S&S 124 would have been a no brainer for me...

If you do have an issue, S&S has a Dealer network all over the country, (like Mitchdm said 1 phone #) and some Harley Dealers are S&S Dealers also.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I'd also be interested in the diagnosis why your current motor has gone through so many lifters.
Yeah, I'd be interested in that diagnosis myself. I don't know why it eats lifters. I suspect maybe it has an oiling problem or something? I know it's got me to where I don't trust it, which is why I'm looking at doing a complete motor swap.

Here's the history: I've used Amsoil 20w50 since the first oil change at 500 miles and every 5000 after that. I've always had normal oil pressure and no other indications of problems other than the clattering lifters on cold startups. Mileage below is approximate.

1. Stock HD lifters - Replaced under warranty at about 10000 miles

2. Stock HD lifters - started clattering again around 16500 miles. Even though it was still under warranty, I didn't want to put in another set of stock lifters and I figured it was a good time to put a set of cams in anyway. So....

3. I installed a set of Woods lifters, FuelMoto adjustable pushrods, and TW222 cams. Approximately 17k miles at this point. Fat, dumb and happy until....

4. I went a little crazy with mods over the winter of 2013. One of the many mods I did was to swap in FuelMoto Level B heads and a set of TW777 cams. I did not change the lifters at this time, so I was still on the Woods lifters. This brings us up to November 2013 and about 28K miles.

5. March, 2014. Made the RG.org Memphis meet and great, where Zman made fun of my once-again clattering lifters. :) We're at a little more than 29K miles now.

6. At this point, I'm concerned that maybe I did something wrong during my DIY cams/lifters installs. So, I had a local Indy replace just the lifters. He told me he used Fueling lifters. This was at about 30,500 miles. Unbelievably these lifters started clattering again at about 33,500.

7. This coming weekend: I'll be installing a new set of Woods lifters. I'm also replacing the FM adjustable pushrods and going with a set of HD SE tapered adjustables, because I've never really been happy with the FM rods and what a bitch it is to adjust them. I'm hoping this will get me through the rest of the riding season. 34k

8. This winter: DRAGOS 124!!.... or an S&S.... or trailer it up to Frank... or %*@$ me... I'm not sure.
 
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