[Thermodyne]

A couple of big shops are reporting that unlocked tuner sales from Techno Research and Power Vision will end on Jan 1, 2023. Thats tuners and licenses for existing tuners. And the 2023 Harley ECMs will be incompatible with existing tuner hardware. Not sure if that is a physical change or some sort of software/encryption lock.

Moving forward all tuners will be locked like the SE tuner.

 

[NCPiper]

No surprises there really. ugh

 

[VrodGuy]

Awesome..

 

[Zedbra]

I really need to learn to tune this carb on my Shovel. lol. Bloody hell - EPA can pound sand. What happens to all the money that the EPA collects?

 

[Roosterman623]

Really shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone as you had to figure it was coming. The EPA seems to follow Comifornia, so all you have to do is look to the west to see what the future holds………. The older Twin Cams like mine are looking better and better…….. 😉

 

[nreh1998]

So you are telling me to go ahead and buy a tuner...

 

[Thermodyne]

So you are telling me to go ahead and buy a tuner...

Absolutely not.

Advising you to tamper with an emissions-controlled motor vehicle would be a crime under federal law.

But if you were wanting one to use on you KoB race bike, or as a display part or keep sake, then it looks like you have about 16 days to get it ordered.

 

[StoneTrekker]

Those who purchased and used tuners prior to the cutoff date....any presumed limitations on their use, or ability to download and install various maps?

 

[HellInABucket]

The Macomb County Choppers nut job posted that.

I sent a note to Jamie at Fuel Moto. This was his response.

 

[Roosterman623]

What you have in your tuner or in your bike now is safe. I mean, the EPA can’t hack into your internet to gain access to your tuner to remove your data. But from what I read yesterday, just don’t expect to be able to download any new non-EPA compliant tunes for street legal applications starting in January……. What wasn’t specified though is if you already have a soon-to-be illegal tune, and you connect to the Power Vision (for example) server, will your current tune be overwritten with an EPA compliant tune? Dunno…. So to be safe I’d say don’t upload or download after Dec 31st until more is known…….

 

[DGLIDE20]

What you have in your tuner or in your bike now is safe. I mean, the EPA can’t hack into your internet to gain access to your tuner to remove your data. But from what I read yesterday, just don’t expect to be able to download any new non-EPA compliant tunes for street legal applications starting in January……. What wasn’t specified though is if you already have a soon-to-be illegal tune, and you connect to the Power Vision (for example) server, will your current tune be overwritten with an EPA compliant tune? Dunno…. So to be safe I’d say don’t upload or download after Dec 31st until more is known…….

I wouldn't think that it would be a problem with existing tunes. When you go to the server they will just confirm your license, not your tune.

 

[StoneTrekker]

From @HellInABucket image above:

"In addition to tuning all pipe manufacturers are now installing catalytic converters in their headpipes. The end is near guys".

The M.C.C. guy who wrote that apparently has some real inside knowledge and important contacts.

 

[Thermodyne]

The Macomb County Choppers nut job posted that.

I sent a note to Jamie at Fuel Moto. This was his response.
View attachment 452705

View attachment 452706

I think he either didn't understand what you were asking, or he deliberately gave you the official line.

CARB approved tuners are locked, like the SE tuner.

The tuners in this discussion are the unlocked tuners that allowed for fuel and spark settings not approved by CARB and the EPA.

 

[DGLIDE20]

I think he either didn't understand what you were asking, or he deliberately gave you the official line.

CARB approved tuners are locked, like the SE tuner.

The tuners in this discussion are the unlocked tuners that allowed for fuel and spark settings not approved by CARB and the EPA.

I noticed that Jamie didn't mention the
Dynojet Power Vision PV-2B Harley CAN

 

[Thermodyne]

What you have in your tuner or in your bike now is safe. I mean, the EPA can’t hack into your internet to gain access to your tuner to remove your data. But from what I read yesterday, just don’t expect to be able to download any new non-EPA compliant tunes for street legal applications starting in January……. What wasn’t specified though is if you already have a soon-to-be illegal tune, and you connect to the Power Vision (for example) server, will your current tune be overwritten with an EPA compliant tune? Dunno…. So to be safe I’d say don’t upload or download after Dec 31st until more is known…….

I doubt they would come after you as an individual. If they did, it would be because they found a receipt in the records of a retailer or shop where the tuner was purchased from. More likely it would be some sort of state level inspection. Some states still check for emissions tampering at time of sale.

In the past it has not been economically feasible for the EPA to chase down end users. Sort of like the war on drugs, they want the distributors and the manufacturers. With that said, as a lay person it would be real rare to get fined for tampering. You just plead lack of intent. But they do require vehicles to be returned to oem condition when they become aware of them. So keep those oem parts.

 

[Roosterman623]

The Macomb County Choppers nut job posted that.

I sent a note to Jamie at Fuel Moto. This was his response.
View attachment 452705

View attachment 452706

I find Jamie’s message interesting in that he says the Dynojet PV’s are already close to CARB and are 49 state compliant. I guess the exception is Comifornia? I would not be comfortable with that long term, because like I said, the EPA seems to follow Cali’s lead, so further restrictions will be coming for the other 49 states and I’d bet money on that.……. Also what does being CARB compliant mean? Going forward these aftermarket tuners are being held to the same EPA standards (locked) that the SE tuners have already been tuning at. So that said, what be the benefit of having a Power Vision or Dynojet tune over a HD SE tune……..? Maybe the aftermarket tuners have access to more of the fuel and timing tables than the SE tuners? Dunno.

Also of note is the Macomb Chopper dudes statement that all pipe manufacturers going forward will be required to have cats in the head pipe. I guess we’ll now see sales of spade drill bits increasing, lol.

 

[Thermodyne]

I find Jamie’s message interesting in that he says the Dynojet PV’s are already close to CARB and are 49 state compliant. I guess the exception is Comifornia? I would not be comfortable with that long term, because like I said, the EPA seems to follow Cali’s lead, so further restrictions will be coming for the other 49 states and I’d bet money on that.……. Also what does being CARB compliant mean? Going forward these aftermarket tuners are being held to the same EPA standards (locked) that the SE tuners have already been tuning at. So that said, what be the benefit of having a Power Vision or Dynojet tune over a HD SE tune……..? Maybe the aftermarket tuners have access to more of the fuel and timing tables than the SE tuners? Dunno.

Also of note is the Macomb Chopper dudes statement that all pipe manufacturers going forward will be required to have cats in the head pipe. I guess we’ll now see sales of spade drill bits increasing, lol.

Or burn it out with a torch, they would have to prove that a malfunction didn't just melt it out if it ever got caught. Whereas drilling or cutting the shell is obvious tampering.

 

[Rob-B]

Government will tell you what you need.
They're here to help.

I guess the carburetor and magneto option is still on the shelf.

 

[dbell66253]

There’s a big discussion about this on Facebook. Seems a lot of people think the sky is falling but some of the major builders are saying not so fast, also as Jamie has said PV is compliant and it can be tuned…..you have to read into that. Think outside of the box.

 

[Roosterman623]

More likely it would be some sort of state level inspection. Some states still check for emissions tampering at time of sale.

In the past it has not been economically feasible for the EPA to chase down end users. Sort of like the war on drugs, they want the distributors and the manufacturers. With that said, as a lay person it would be real rare to get fined for tampering. You just plead lack of intent. But they do require vehicles to be returned to oem condition when they become aware of them. So keep those oem parts.

Living here in Texas when I was in High School back in the early 80’s I lived in El Paso and worked at a gas station. El Paso was and still is 1 of only 2 or 3 cities in Texas that require a smog sniffer test in the tailpipe when we did yearly vehicle safety inspections……. I’ve now lived in the San Antonio area for 40 years and we still do not have smog checks here…….. So in order for the EPA to enforce their new rules, the only way to know if a bike (or car, or diesel truck) has been tuned without plugging into the ECM, is via a smog sniffer test….. So as Thermo stated, I can see this coming across the US in the future. Just like they already do in Europe……

Like the German dude was posting here in the forum earlier this week, in Europe they sell electronically controlled exhaust systems which with the flick of a switch will bypass cats and baffles….. Perhaps this is the “tuning wave” of the future to come here to the US as well……