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Discussion Starter #1
So I finally got around to pulling things off my old 2012 CVO 110" motor that is just sitting on my garage floor. Since all you seem to read about is how bad the SE lifters are I thought I would take a look. Not being a lifter expert I welcome any feed back on what you might see in these pics. These lifters have over 47k on them and outside of some light scaring on the outside of the middle section of one or 2 of the lifters they seem to be fine. The rollers are smooth with no signs of wear and they roll absolutely smooth as glass. I know there have been many with issues but here seem to be evidence that not all are that bad. Not trying to put a plug in for MOCO but just wanted to share. ImageUploadedByMotorcycle1448902328.074085.jpg ImageUploadedByMotorcycle1448902344.824448.jpg ImageUploadedByMotorcycle1448902362.093192.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Just to note since I know it will come up. The lifter in the top left corner in the pic that shows the rollers still has oil on it and it shows like it is not smooth. It is very smooth with no scaring.
 

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They don't look bad but it is hard to tell without a close inspection. A lifter can roll alright on the bearing and the roller should have a little side to side movement, if you can twist the roller then the bearing is going bad.
Also it is hard to see if the lifter collapsed or the spring is going bad without a hands on inspection.
Did you ever use a aftermarket higher lift cam in the bike?? A higher lift cam can put the lifters under more strain which will cause premature failure also stronger valve springs will can cause premature lifter failure.
In general if you keep the cam lift around .555 and you have stock valve springs you shouldn't have any problems with the stock lifters.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
They don't look bad but it is hard to tell without a close inspection. A lifter can roll alright on the bearing and the roller should have a little side to side movement, if you can twist the roller then the bearing is going bad.
Also it is hard to see if the lifter collapsed or the spring is going bad without a hands on inspection.
Did you ever use a aftermarket higher lift cam in the bike?? A higher lift cam can put the lifters under more strain which will cause premature failure also stronger valve springs will can cause premature lifter failure.
In general if you keep the cam lift around .555 and you have stock valve springs you shouldn't have any problems with the stock lifters.
There is the small amount of side to side movement but I cannot twist the roller at all. I only ran the stock 255 cams in it but even still there was a lot of issues with the lifters in the 110's up to a point and I'm not sure when MOCO change them. These could be better lifters than what they were once putting in. Not a real big deal, I just wanted to post a small success story about the lifters since most only post about the negative. I'll get an indy to look at them but from what I see it looks like they could have gone another 47k but who knows, they won't go back in any motor that I own anyway. If I have lifter issues I will use a fresh set.

I'll tear the rest of the motor apart this week just to see all the damage the failed crankshaft bearing did and to see if the pistons and heads are ok. Kinda fun have an extra motor just lying around to tinker with. :nerd:
 

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You can take most HD stock or SE parts that the internet has nothing good to say about. Repackage them . Rename them as Fist slammer ninja and they would magically become the best in the world.
In order to sell their products many companies go out of their way to feed the anit ND part fever on the net.
Never had a lifter fail not even on an HD with 80K on it.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
You can take most HD stock or SE parts that the internet has nothing good to say about. Repackage them . Rename them as Fist slammer ninja and they would magically become the best in the world.
In order to sell their products many companies go out of their way to feed the anit ND part fever on the net.
Never had a lifter fail not even on an HD with 80K on it.

That is pretty much what I believe as well. Paranoia sells a lot of parts for the aftermarket world.
 

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I agree on the HD parts quality , plenty of good to great HD parts out there , one person has an issue , then everyone says the part is no good , a feeding frenzy to replace the trashy HD parts ..

Truth be known , most peeps wouldn't know good from bad ...

Many issues can be traced back to someone who thinks they know what they are doing , but really have no business even owning tools , let alone use them ..

Unlike their predecessors , TC's have very little room for error when replacing parts or rebuilding engines ..

JtB
 

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Some get lucky, but lifter failure in performance motors is not an internet scare tactic to sell parts. I had SE lifters take out a great running motor, granted it had .625 lift cams, but I know guys with more radical cams and S&S lifters having no problems. There are many documented failures of SE, Harley "C", and Gaterman lifters. The best lifters HD had were the "B" model. Agree with Ironmark, keeping cam lift near stock gives a better chance of no problems. I had 90,000 miles on stock lifters, but that was on a 80" Evo, stock cams (.472 lift), and production back then wasn't in Mexico or China.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Some get lucky, but lifter failure in performance motors is not an internet scare tactic to sell parts. I had SE lifters take out a great running motor, granted it had .625 lift cams, but I know guys with more radical cams and S&S lifters having no problems. There are many documented failures of SE, Harley "C", and Gaterman lifters. The best lifters HD had were the "B" model. Agree with Ironmark, keeping cam lift near stock gives a better chance of no problems. I had 90,000 miles on stock lifters, but that was on a 80" Evo, stock cams, and production back then wasn't in Mexico or China.
It's all in how you want to look at it. I would say that your statement would be more accurate if you said "Some get unlucky." I know S&S lifters are great but I seriously doubt that they have NEVER had a failure. Sure if you are putting in higher lift cams then why not go with X brand. You are changing from the way the MoCo designed the motor to start with. I know a few guys with 120R's that have higher lift cams (T-man, Woods) than what came in them and still running the SE lifters with no issue as well. If I were building a bike that I wanted to race and had tons of Hp/Tq I would go with one of the big aftermarket guys like S&S because that is what they specialize in and are a proven winner AND they only deal with motors. Not disputing that but for the everyday rider that doesn't put his bike through the ringer it is just not necessary unless you just have money burning a hole in your pocket. MoCo is in the business of selling motorcycles and seems like everything else under the sun. Maybe that's their downfall because they have too many things to worry about but if S&S tried to mirror HD and sell everything they did, you would start seeing the same issues or they wouldn't be able to stay in business. Never said there is never an issue with their parts. Their are but we don't always know how important pieces of information for that contributed to that failure. We all like to bash HD for just wanting to make a buck but are willing to overlook it when the aftermarket guys do it too. If HD were all that bad most of us would be riding another brand of bike and not bashing other people for wanting to go buy an Indian or Victory. There will be as many different opinions on this topic as we have members and it makes for great conversation but for me I love my HD and plan to put as many miles as possible on it. Ride safe guys!
 

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I think the farther you go from stock/mild the more you have to look at replacing stock parts with aftermarket pieces. If not, then it can start to affect longevity. JMO of course.
 

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It's not how one looks at it, it's documented fact, many times on every board on the net. Ask Smarty how his brand new lifters (stock motor) are doing. :wink: I have 2 new bikes, the 2014 CVO Roadking had lifter noise from the start, replaced them very quiet motor now. My 2015 Roadglide (stock motor) on the other hand is very quiet with "C" lifters.....for now, has 9000 miles on them. It's a crap shoot, same as it was with hydraulic lifters that failed twice in my 1975 Superglide (some things never change LOL) in the first 500 miles. I switched those to Sifton solids and never had a issue the next 75,000 miles. These big twins have pushrod angles unlike a Sportster which are straight, don't hear about lifter failure in them very often. For guys that keep their bikes for 10 years at a time and put a lot of miles on It isn't a waste of money to replace lifters, if one trades every couple years I wouldn't bother changing them.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well if it's such a "crap shoot", why do we keep buying HD and not going to another brand? If these bikes were really as bad as we make them out to be I say we are absolutely stupid to gamble with that much money on a motorcycle. We not only keep buying these bikes but we will defend to the death if someone riding a Victory or Indian starts hating on our beloved Harley.

I really get what you are saying though and for those that have had the issues they are real and they will have vastly different opinions from those who have not.

As far as it being well documented on the Internet, a lot of that is one person has the real issue and 15 others jump on that band wagon without ever having experienced the issue.

I just had the crankshaft bearing go out in my CVO 110" motor last May at 47k on the odometer and I could go on a hating spree myself but I feel it may not have had the issue near as soon, if at all, if I had ridden this 900lb touring bike like it was designed instead of like some sport bike. Could HD build a more reliable bike? Sure they could but we would have a fit when we saw the price tag even more than we do now.

No I'm not drinking the MOCO cool-aid and I don't drink a lot of the other flavored cool-aids that are out there either. Well not too often anyway. ?
 
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