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Never felt dumber in my life than reading this thread and trying to understand any of it...........let me know when we get to the part about the Horn as THAT.....I get
 

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Discussion Starter #23
To the OP- this just showed up and they expect you to do that work to your bike? Are you/have you been working with them or is this random?

I wouldn’t think this should be something your avg joe should be doing in their garage if they aren’t mechanically savvy.
Not at all. It was just passed on to me as and FYI.

This is what they are telling dealers to do when they have one that is documented as transfering trans oil to the primary.

This is a service kit. Service kits are intended to be installed by qualified (trained) personel. And some service kits are restricted sales. Meaning only a dealer can order them based on the vin of the scooter its going into. Not sure yet what the status of this one is.
 

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because of Kevin Cameron's article about the "new" Milwaukee-8 i was under the impression that overfills were directed to the transmission.

"Small details are important. In the past, if the oil was overfilled, excess oil could wet the air filter via the breather. This has now been rerouted through the transmission case."
after reading the "Engine Oil Flow" section of the service manual, i realize now that Kevin was not saying that it was an open vent into the tranny. there is a line that passes through the transmission into the oil pan.

as to the complexity of the oil circulation system, it's unclear to me if it's just basically a mechanical system whose only "check" is an oil pressure switch. the air cooled models have a system that twists and turns at many intersection points and it seems the MoCo's way of dealing with it is to just increase the flow rate.

i remember a time on my evo when i dreamed of a gerotor oil pump. seems now i have 2 that move an awful lot of fluid.

one blows and one sucks lol


@Thermodyne sorry to get off topic, just clarifying my previous post
 

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Not at all. It was just passed on to me as and FYI.

This is what they are telling dealers to do when they have one that is documented as transfering trans oil to the primary.

This is a service kit. Service kits are intended to be installed by qualified (trained) personel. And some service kits are restricted sales. Meaning only a dealer can order them based on the vin of the scooter its going into. Not sure yet what the status of this one is.
I wonder how they will handle cases on this were bikes are black listed for warranty for using an non hd tuner or such.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
I wonder how they will handle cases on this were bikes are black listed for warranty for using an non hd tuner or such.
The black list letter says no powertrain warranty on black listed scooters. So I would assume it would get kicked.

Seriously, what are you going to do if the scooter is tampered? Start a big fight and have them refer it to the EPA for clarification :surprise:
 

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Never felt dumber in my life than reading this thread and trying to understand any of it...........let me know when we get to the part about the Horn as THAT.....I get
I put on my tweed blazer with elbow patches and nod my head a lot while reading these posts, in case anyone's watching, they might think I understand what I'm reading.
 

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Never felt dumber in my life than reading this thread and trying to understand any of it...........let me know when we get to the part about the Horn as THAT.....I get
I put on my tweed blazer with elbow patches and nod my head a lot while reading these posts, in case anyone's watching, they might think I understand what I'm reading.
lol so true! I’m lost here.
 

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The black list letter says no powertrain warranty on black listed scooters. So I would assume it would get kicked.

Seriously, what are you going to do if the scooter is tampered? Start a big fight and have them refer it to the EPA for clarification :surprise:
I was talking more about the new kit " not for sale " . Seeing that there's a known problem with stock bikes with the fluid transfer. I agree with the warranty coverage or non coverage for the most part. Why wouldn't they sell the part to repair a known problem if they don't want to warranty it ??
 

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Seems to me that to pull a meaningful amount of oil out of the trans, there would need to be suction on the primary. As in primary seal acting as a breather valve. And that would require a vacuum on the crankcase, which there could be on the upstroke if the ring seal was good, and there was no residual pressure left from the last down stroke. Which with just a little imagination connects us to the crankcase sumping issue.

I'll wait until someone says this cured their issue. Although it might be worth plumbing a vacuum gauge to the trans vent, just to see what is going on as far as pressures. And suction on the trans would be from the primary, and that would have to be from the motor itself.
Harley Initially thought there was vacuum from the engine crankcase as well, and reports from other sites have shown there attempts to seal any possible vacuum leak at the crankcase didnt work, because the crankcase, as we know from sumping has EXCESS pressure, not a vacuum.

On HTT forum, there is proof of a harley tech installing a vent in the primary on a bike at sturgis, and the bike hasnt transferred since. per the forum user (he included photos of installed vent)

 

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That has been an area were the MoCo has been poking around. And there was a change to that bearing in 17.

If you look at the housing where the clutch slave sits, it would tend to pump the oil through with each lever release. ANd there have been at least two fixed tested on that area. Maybe they didn't work, or maybe they are just looking for a cheaper fix.

A for sure fix would be this vent and a seal on the pushrod like they used on the 4 speeds. Could be built into the clutch retention nut or it could be something that snapped over the nut.

4 speed push rod seal/nut
Someone on HTT forum did the math, and the area between the slave and the bearing, will NOT allow for proper drain off of sloshing oil, leading to the slave pushing fluid. Some one had discussed machining an area out of the cover with multiple drains to drain fluid. dont know if it was ever tried
HTT Forum users had evidence of prior harley fixes like putting a "seal" on the clutch pushrod, with little to no guaranteed effect, it only slowed the transfer.

ALSO FYI: This has never existed on cable actuated clutches, even on current bikes. This problem solely exists in hydro clutch bikes (yes even some Twin cams but less frequently i guess)
 

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My '19 RG has the migration issue. I checked the trans fluid level at delivery and at about 200 miles, it was in the middle of the add and full marks. Checked it again on Monday at 631 miles, nothing on the stick. It took 16 ozs to put it in the middle.
I rode 200 miles and checked it the next morning, down another 5 ozs.

So I pulled the derby cover and removed the excess. Then pulled the pushrod and modified it. Just trying the simplest fix first. If that doesn't help, I'll have to see if the MoCo's new vent tube is successful. If not, I'll modify the trans side cover to better drain the oil away from the bearing area.
I have the exact same issue same miles same amount of oil and I'm just shy of 400 mi on my 19. Called dealer Sat told them of issue the only thing he said was yea they are aware but just surprised so much transfer on 19,so its going in and I'll see what they come up with first.. At this rate of transfer I would need to add every time I got gas. Now sorry I sold my 17 had no issues
 

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I had this new kit installed on my 18 RGU. At my 5k oil change I noticed the issue was happening. Ran the 1000 mile test that the dealership wanted to measure the amount of transfer. Since they installed the kit, I've only ridden about 200 miles since, but I have a 2k mile trip coming up in a couple of weeks, so I figure that will be a good test to see if it corrected the problem or not. I'll let you guys know what happens.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
I was talking more about the new kit " not for sale " . Seeing that there's a known problem with stock bikes with the fluid transfer. I agree with the warranty coverage or non coverage for the most part. Why wouldn't they sell the part to repair a known problem if they don't want to warranty it ??
Generally there is an underling reason when kits are restricted. Proof of concept with a fixed number of test installs would be the most likely reason. But it could be a limited availability issue. Or they just may not want dealers installing them willy nilly and billing it as warranty.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Harley Initially thought there was vacuum from the engine crankcase as well, and reports from other sites have shown there attempts to seal any possible vacuum leak at the crankcase didnt work, because the crankcase, as we know from sumping has EXCESS pressure, not a vacuum.

On HTT forum, there is proof of a harley tech installing a vent in the primary on a bike at sturgis, and the bike hasnt transferred since. per the forum user (he included photos of installed vent)



http://i63.tinypic.com/2e0mpn6.jpg since the photo wont work for some reason
Got nothing on the link, just a template page. But I did see that thread over on the other forum
 

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I just ordered the fat clutch rod fix that Greg from macomb county choppers is selling.Its supposed to stop the transfer completely.
I just received mine from Greg this weekend, I have my fingers crossed that it will do the trick as it has for others.
 

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So Dealer calls back this morning and says hey all we can do is drain fluids document refill and send you on your way WTF I can do that. They said Harley has no fix at this time ,I said well I just seen a Harley part designed to fix this. Yea well they are not sending that out to dealers to install now he says . What a bunch of BS guess I'll let them document problem to cover my ass then find my own solution
because this problem has been around for over 2yrs and they haven't yet
 

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This job is well above my skill level but just out of curiosity, where on the primary will the vent hole be? (Top? Side?) And will a vent hole allow water to get into the primary or is there a valve on the tube? Sorry if these are stupid questions from a novice.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
This job is well above my skill level but just out of curiosity, where on the primary will the vent hole be? (Top? Side?) And will a vent hole allow water to get into the primary or is there a valve on the tube? Sorry if these are stupid questions from a novice.

Upper rear area of the primary.

It looks like it is just a rubber hose with one end moulded to fit into a recess already existing in the primary.
 
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