Road Glide banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am looking at a 2015 used RGS with only 2K miles on it. The bike is at a dealer and was previously owned by a rich guy with lots of toys. The 1K service as well as some accessory work was all done at a dealer, he paid to have slip-ons, grips and highway pegs installed. The bike has oil dye in the transmission, very light blue/green tint and glows under an ultraviolet light. The service tech said "the factory was putting dye in new bikes periodically to check for leaks". Sounds like BS to me. Has anyone heard of the factory randomly using dye to check for tranny leaks? I have an ultraviolet flashlight and may go back next week and pull the derby to see if there is any transfer to the primary or any external leaks. Thanks in advance!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,812 Posts
I think that transmission oil migration started with the M8. 2015 has the twin cam.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,926 Posts
I am looking at a 2015 used RGS with only 2K miles on it. The bike is at a dealer and was previously owned by a rich guy with lots of toys. The 1K service as well as some accessory work was all done at a dealer, he paid to have slip-ons, grips and highway pegs installed. There are no repair tickets from Harley on it. The bike has oil dye in the transmission, very light blue/green tint and glows under an ultraviolet light. The service tech said "the factory was putting dye in new bikes periodically to check for leaks". Sounds like BS to me. Has anyone heard of the factory randomly using dye to check for tranny leaks? I have an ultraviolet flashlight and may go back next week and pull the derby to see if there is any transfer to the primary or any external leaks. Thanks in advance!
Have not heard of this but then I don’t pay any attention to Harley and it’s practices. The transmission can’t transfer to the primary. If it leaks it will be externally. It may have had a tranny leak that the dealer had a hard time finding. Though I’m not sure how that would be possible. It can only leak from a small number of places.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,373 Posts
Have not heard of this but then I don’t pay any attention to Harley and it’s practices. The transmission can’t transfer to the primary. If it leaks it will be externally. It may have had a tranny leak that the dealer had a hard time finding. Though I’m not sure how that would be possible. It can only leak from a small number of places.

Not true, there are numerous cases of transfer from trans to inner primary. The problem with that, its hard to figure "how" it can happen.
While it first showed up on the M8's on the dyno, there have been a few TC doing the same thing.
There maybe more, but most people just dump the oil in a pan, and refill. There are reports of pulling the derby cover and oil pouring out and a check of the trans dipstick showing way low or not on the stick
It seems to be at high revs there is a vacuum in the primary causing the trans fluid to travel along the push rod.........Yeah I know, its hard to wrap your head around that.

I know I keep a closer eye on the trans fluid now
If your interested, go to HTT for more info from some Harley techs, shop owners and even owners of dealerships
 
  • Like
Reactions: MightyWhitey

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,615 Posts
It's pretty much impossible for the trans fluid to leak into the primary. I would say that with 2K on the bike there shouldn't be any leaks and I see no reason for you to shy away from this bike. You can always buy the extended warranty if it makes you more comfortable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
172 Posts
It's pretty much impossible for the trans fluid to leak into the primary. I would say that with 2K on the bike there shouldn't be any leaks and I see no reason for you to shy away from this bike. You can always buy the extended warranty if it makes you more comfortable.
Apparently HD doesn't think it is impossible.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Not true, there are numerous cases of transfer from trans to inner primary. The problem with that, its hard to figure "how" it can happen.
While it first showed up on the M8's on the dyno, there have been a few TC doing the same thing.
There maybe more, but most people just dump the oil in a pan, and refill. There are reports of pulling the derby cover and oil pouring out and a check of the trans dipstick showing way low or not on the stick
It seems to be at high revs there is a vacuum in the primary causing the trans fluid to travel along the push rod.........Yeah I know, its hard to wrap your head around that.

I know I keep a closer eye on the trans fluid now
If your interested, go to HTT for more info from some Harley techs, shop owners and even owners of dealerships
Yeah there are a small number of 15-16 twin cams that have had tranny fluid transfer happening, hydraulic clutch models, I think there is a fix for those years but they are still working on the M8 transfer issue. Really long thread about it over on hd forums.

The original owner used the dealer for everything including mounting highway pegs and installing a pair of V&H slips but there is no record of the dye at all. A little unusual, if there was a problem it would have been under warranty and the dealer would have a record of it. Anyway there may not even be a problem, just wondering why there would be dye in there......thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,926 Posts
Not true, there are numerous cases of transfer from trans to inner primary. The problem with that, its hard to figure "how" it can happen.
While it first showed up on the M8's on the dyno, there have been a few TC doing the same thing.
There maybe more, but most people just dump the oil in a pan, and refill. There are reports of pulling the derby cover and oil pouring out and a check of the trans dipstick showing way low or not on the stick
It seems to be at high revs there is a vacuum in the primary causing the trans fluid to travel along the push rod.........Yeah I know, its hard to wrap your head around that.

I know I keep a closer eye on the trans fluid now
If your interested, go to HTT for more info from some Harley techs, shop owners and even owners of dealerships
Thanks Bruce, I stand corrected. This must be a hydraulic clutch issue. I was thinking of my own bike again and you’re correct, I’m not able to wrap my head around how it could migrate into the primary along that shaft. Thanks for the education. ???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,927 Posts
2015 had no migration issues. However from the dawn of time Harley and every engine /transmission manufacture has had a porous case from time to time. Often a small leak is noticed and no one find it. The lube builds up in cavities in the cases not meant to have lube. In time it leaks out. Highly like they may have suspected a porous case and used that as a step in figuring it out.
Unlikely any deal made that story up . Good bet more internet Myth.
My 2016 had a porous case, Dealer figure it out right away and it had the cases replaced never an issue again with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,373 Posts
Thanks Bruce, I stand corrected. This must be a hydraulic clutch issue. I was thinking of my own bike again and you’re correct, I’m not able to wrap my head around how it could migrate into the primary along that shaft. Thanks for the education. ???
I couldn't see how myself until one of the members over at HTT posted up a picture of the inside of the trans. There is a little "lip" around the hole for the push rod that oil can sit on. He was thinking out loud that drilling a small drainage hole would prevent oil from staying around the rod. But how/why there is a vacuum in the primary to suck the oil out OR the vent on top of the trans is too small and the trans is being pressurized and oil is following the path of lest resistance.......Crazy shit for sure

But if you think that unbelievable, you should see the M8 Balancer bearing that are coming apart. And what type of bearing the factory is/was using. First year teething problems I guess
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,378 Posts
I am looking at a 2015 used RGS with only 2K miles on it. The bike is at a dealer and was previously owned by a rich guy with lots of toys. The 1K service as well as some accessory work was all done at a dealer, he paid to have slip-ons, grips and highway pegs installed. The bike has oil dye in the transmission, very light blue/green tint and glows under an ultraviolet light. The service tech said "the factory was putting dye in new bikes periodically to check for leaks". Sounds like BS to me. Has anyone heard of the factory randomly using dye to check for tranny leaks? I have an ultraviolet flashlight and may go back next week and pull the derby to see if there is any transfer to the primary or any external leaks. Thanks in advance!
So the sales person says that the MoCo put the dye in the trans oil.

Never heard of them doing that as a preemptive sort of thing. But then I don't guess its the sort of thing they would advertise. I'm inclined to think it would only happen if there had been a leak.

But I do know that it should have been drained out as part of the 1000 mile service, and replaced with new oil. So something ain't right in Harleyville, and they are trying to make it right by blowing smoke up your azz.

You need to find a dealer who doesn't feel the need to bullshit you and a used scooter sale.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,378 Posts
Apparently HD doesn't think it is impossible.
So I gotta ask, where did you find that, ah, bulletin?

You do realize that is says to replace the crank seal in order to fix a trans oil transfer issue.

12068 is a lefty crank seal and has nothing to do with the trans. You might want to have a word with your source.

While that seal could cause motor oil to migrate to the primary, it has nothing to do with trans oil. The only way oil can move from the trans to the primary is through the push rod passage in the main shaft.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
So the sales person says that the MoCo put the dye in the trans oil.

Never heard of them doing that as a preemptive sort of thing. But then I don't guess its the sort of thing they would advertise. I'm inclined to think it would only happen if there had been a leak.

But I do know that it should have been drained out as part of the 1000 mile service, and replaced with new oil. So something ain't right in Harleyville, and they are trying to make it right by blowing smoke up your azz.

You need to find a dealer who doesn't feel the need to bullshit you and a used scooter sale.
No, I found the dye when inspecting the bike. The selling dealer and the dealer that serviced the bike have no knowledge of any work on the bike other than service and accessories. At the 1K they put syn 3 in all three holes. No dye.

Nobody feels the need to bullshit me, they have both been Honest and helpful. I dont need a new dealer. My question was wether the factory puts dye in periodically...........
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
172 Posts
So I gotta ask, where did you find that, ah, bulletin?

You do realize that is says to replace the crank seal in order to fix a trans oil transfer issue.

12068 is a lefty crank seal and has nothing to do with the trans. You might want to have a word with your source.

While that seal could cause motor oil to migrate to the primary, it has nothing to do with trans oil. The only way oil can move from the trans to the primary is through the push rod passage in the main shaft.
The source would be Harley Davidson Motor Company. Sorry if that source doesn't meet your standards but that is the best I can do.

For more info than you can imagine, trying an internet search on "TA0022 Harley."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
For more info than you can imagine said:
I only put about 3K miles on my 17 RGS this year but had not heard of that issue. I am pretty good at lurking on this forum - really appreciate the info and good natured fuckery. I just spent the last couple of hours reading up on TA0022 (a lot of it on the HD forum so some sifting is expected). Not sure if I'm hijacking this thread so I'll just encourage others to check it out (if you have a 17 or 18 M8 w/hydraulic clutch). Seems there's something to it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,538 Posts
So I gotta ask, where did you find that, ah, bulletin?

You do realize that is says to replace the crank seal in order to fix a trans oil transfer issue.

12068 is a lefty crank seal and has nothing to do with the trans. You might want to have a word with your source.

While that seal could cause motor oil to migrate to the primary, it has nothing to do with trans oil. The only way oil can move from the trans to the primary is through the push rod passage in the main shaft.
Actually this may be a answer. Being a dry sump motor it could or should have a vacuum. If that seal is bad and allows vacuum into the primary. That vacuum can then suck transmission oil down the shaft. Wow, seems like a stretch but possible.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,378 Posts
No, I found the dye when inspecting the bike. The selling dealer and the dealer that serviced the bike have no knowledge of any work on the bike other than service and accessories. At the 1K they put syn 3 in all three holes. No dye.

Nobody feels the need to bullshit me, they have both been Honest and helpful. I dont need a new dealer. My question was wether the factory puts dye in periodically...........
The factory has started using dye to check for leaks. According to TA0020 it will be pink or orange.

The source would be Harley Davidson Motor Company. Sorry if that source doesn't meet your standards but that is the best I can do.

For more info than you can imagine, trying an internet search on "TA0022 Harley."
As to TA0022, as I suspected, its from a document bin on the net, as opposed to the MoCo document site. The MoCo issues these things as guidance. And they also unissued them. When they have a fix that involves more than a improved part, they issue a M-xxxx Service bulletin. I do not yet know the what the bulletin is indexed as, but the current fix is a pushrod seal.



Actually this may be a answer. Being a dry sump motor it could or should have a vacuum. If that seal is bad and allows vacuum into the primary. That vacuum can then suck transmission oil down the shaft. Wow, seems like a stretch but possible.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
In the past, issues with that seal have caused the primary fluid to transfer to the engine. But not from the trans. As for the vacuum, I don's see how the fluid would be transferred from below the main shaft, up to the push rod and through to the primary at a greater rate than primary oil would enter the engine. But I am hearing some chatter about the plastic cage used in the trap door bearing and it blocking fluid in against the right end of the main shaft.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
I have been wondering about some dye to put in my transmission. That clear oil is really hard to see against that tiny transmission dipstick.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top