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Discussion Starter #1
So I was told that I need to get a tuner for my bike after I add the dragulas exhaust and the heavy breather intake. I have no idea about tuners but I see there is a wide variety of them and the prices vary a lot. I have been doing some reading on here and also talked to Frank since he is the person I am getting my exhaust from. I see a lot of people recommend the Tmax and I see it is quite pricey compared to others. Why is that one so expensive, what features does it have that others do not? I know Frank said he has other options but I forgot to ask him (I know he is SUPER busy so don't want to keep bugging him). Any other good recommendations out there? I know eventually I want to add cams and dont want to have to buy another tuner when I want to do that. Trying to not have to buy things twice you know...
 

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I recommend a power vision. User friendly, and if you buy from fuel moto, you have lifetime map support no matter what changes you make.
 

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I hope some of you guys can explain the difference with ease of future use in mind for all of us newbs... I am in the same boat as OP and I keep reading older threads but get more confused....not to hijack his thread but I would like something that does not have to dynoed or require additional work. Please someone explain this and keep in mind I am complety ignorant on this...hopefully can help me and the OP at same time!!!! Thanks
 

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My experience and what i think i know.
(I ran my bike stock for the first year)
Bike ran very hot because of the lean AFR from the factory to comply with EPA emissions.
Wanting a little more grunt, i put on slip and did nothing else until i could afford the pieces i wanted. Bike ran the same as stock.

I got a Ness Sucker AC, and still ran the stock exhaust.
bike still ran hot and lean
When i got a new full exhaust, i also purchased a Power Commander V, with a downloaded map from Fuel Moto. Bike ran ok, but still hot because i did not have it dyno tuned, and was just a downloaded map from a dyno done on someone elses bike with similar AC and exhaust set up.
I changed maps a few times until i could be somewhat satisfied.
i recently added cams and a 107 kit, and had it dyno tuned. Bike has never ran better.
moral of my story is, a good Dyno tune is the only way to go if you want your bike to run good, and in order to Dyno tune your bike, you need a tuner to be able to modify the ECM. if you change exhaust and Air Cleaner, your bike will get you down the road just fine. But it wont run good. They dont run good stock from the factory.


Here's some more reading for ya:

http://www.americanrider.com/output.cfm?id=2242909

http://www.harley-riders-guide.com/harley-davidson-efi.html
 

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Tmax - Long

I can't comment on the PV, I have a Tmax and can tell you it is has the ability to adjust more that you can imagine, not that it's necessary, but just about anything you do can be handled without paying to dyno. I was in the same boat as you are but as I have worked with it and Tmax technical support, become more and more confident using it to improve my bike's tune.

Take a few minutes and peruse these links, one is the product features, the other is videos showing how to use it; there are people you can call or email as well. New features added are being able to make changes without being linked via a laptop, up to 5 maps can be loaded and switched, you can change the idle speed and you can calibrate the speedometer. I didn't even know about these until looking for something else on their website this afternoon. Nevermind the price on their site, its just the suggested list. It is sold for less.

http://www.zippersperformance.com/products/fuel-air-efi/thundermax/thundermaxr-with-autotune-for-2008-2013-throttle-by-wire-touring-models.html

http://www.thunder-max.com/Support/Instructions/FuelInjectionVideos.aspx
 

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i recently added cams and a 107 kit, and had it dyno tuned. Bike has never ran better.
moral of my story is, a good Dyno tune is the only way to go if you want your bike to run good, and in order to Dyno tune your bike, you need a tuner to be able to modify the ECM. if you change exhaust and Air Cleaner, your bike will get you down the road just fine. But it wont run good. They dont run good stock from the factory.[/url]
a TTS and knowledgeable dyno tuner I believe is the all around best...
 

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Vote for the PV-1 too. Easy to use and very easy to do a Auto Tune if needed. Fuelmoto has done all the work on the maps so it not necessary to get it dyno'd unless you really want to fine tune it! Like to hear from others who have had it dyno'd and did it make a huge difference.
 

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Power vision / fuel moto

I am a failure at the computer . I was so proud the day my son said i could have one . After reading up on these tuners on this forum i decided on the power vision purchased at fuel moto because i knew i would have some issues with it. Sure enough they sent me a tune and it was good then i got stuck in traffic and it started pinging bad so i auto tuned it and dropped it on their lap and the sent me a tune that was really impressive. And down the line if there is any other problems it will be their problem . I also like that you can adjust the timing on the road for low octane fuel. Ask a lot of questions about the tuners out there and find the one that's right for you. There are no dumb questions.i also like that i don't have to leave it hooked up to the ecm unless you get the auto tune pro ( an extra $400). you can also use it on another bike for a fee. Also they have power vision how to videos , check them out.
 

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If you're not planning to make any more changes to your motor, and you have the luxury of having a good dyno tuner in your area, your best bet is to get with the tuner, and use whatever tuner product they favor, and have them tune it. If you like to do your own thing, or don't live near a good tuner; my choice is the Power Vision, and I couldn't be happier with it, or the support from Fuel Moto. Great folks to deal with.

Jeff
 

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If you're not planning to make any more changes to your motor, and you have the luxury of having a good dyno tuner in your area, your best bet is to get with the tuner, and use whatever tuner product they favor, and have them tune it. If you like to do your own thing, or don't live near a good tuner; my choice is the Power Vision, and I couldn't be happier with it, or the support from Fuel Moto. Great folks to deal with.

Jeff
Well said.
 

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Thanks for the info and links guys. I keep reading and trying to decide on this.... Hopefully the OP is having an easier time than me on this!!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks for the info and links guys. I keep reading and trying to decide on this.... Hopefully the OP is having an easier time than me on this!!
Thanks everybody for the information.

Oh no I am more lost then before.. LOL

So I think I have narrowed down between the Power Vision and the Thundermax. I am trying to figure out what is the $500 difference? I see the power vision is roughly $500 and the Thundermax is $1000.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
If you're not planning to make any more changes to your motor, and you have the luxury of having a good dyno tuner in your area, your best bet is to get with the tuner, and use whatever tuner product they favor, and have them tune it. If you like to do your own thing, or don't live near a good tuner; my choice is the Power Vision, and I couldn't be happier with it, or the support from Fuel Moto. Great folks to deal with.

Jeff
Are cams considered more changes? Also if you go with the Fuel Moto I take it you have to pay to get it dynoed then? And with the Thundermax you don't have to have it dynoed?
 

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Are cams considered more changes? Also if you go with the Fuel Moto I take it you have to pay to get it dynoed then? And with the Thundermax you don't have to have it dynoed?
Yes the cams are considered more changes. You would have to pay for a Dyno Tune with either system IF you decided to get a Dyno Tune. BUT with either of these 2 units a Dyno Tune would not be needed unless you are the type that has to squeeze every last ounce of HP like you were at the races. For everyday driving you do not HAVE to get a Dyno Tune done.

The difference between the 2 tuners is the TMAX replaces your bikes ECM while the PV is used in conjunction with your existing ECM and makes changes to the ECM by changing the program (MAP) within it.

For the money and ease of use my I will add another vote for the PV from Fuel Moto. With their knowledge and customer service you will not be disappointed. I have not used the TMAX but from what I have heard from people who have they are not as user friendly as the PV.

Check out the videos on the Power Commander and the FM websites and you will see how simple it is to use.

http://www.dynojet.com/PowerVision/powervision-videos.aspx

http://www.fuelmotousa.com/site/power-vision.html
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
I am not one that is trying to squeeze every ounce of horse power out of my bike. So lets say next winter I want to add cams to my bike can I still use the powervision or will I need to upgrade to a different type of tuner? Cams is really the only thing I think I will do in the future to my bike (I will be installing the dragula 2-1 and the se heavy breather).

Is the autotune feature for the powervision an extra thing you have to purchase?

Bottom line I am just looking to have my bike run smooth with no pinging or nothing.
 

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I am not one that is trying to squeeze every ounce of horse power out of my bike. So lets say next winter I want to add cams to my bike can I still use the powervision or will I need to upgrade to a different type of tuner? Cams is really the only thing I think I will do in the future to my bike (I will be installing the dragula 2-1 and the se heavy breather).

Is the autotune feature for the powervision an extra thing you have to purchase?

Bottom line I am just looking to have my bike run smooth with no pinging or nothing.
You will not need to repurchase another tuner When you upgrade the cams with either unit as they are both capable of tuning the the addition mods in the future.

The Power Vision comes standard with Auto Tune Basic for free and there are lots of happy users running it that way, myself included. There is an optional Auto Tune Pro kit available but I have yet to talk to anyone that has felt the need for it.
 

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I like my Power Vision so much I mounted it permanently.

 
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