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Discussion Starter #1
Does forced induction appeal to anyone else? I have been looking at different "kits" and RB Racing's appeals to me the most. Having a huge turbo seems to make the most sense to produce the most amount of boost possible at the low rpms our Harley motors run. The huge intercooler makes sense too. Why would you hamper the flow? The thing that is not so fun about turbos is the cost which makes it cost preventative for me at this time which means let's talk about them and learn as much as we possibly can. I like the idea of running 9:1 compression with the ability to get up to 250 horse power or more. Is it necessary? Don't be silly, of course it is!

Is there a spot off the motor that will feed the turbo's bearings? The sending unit it the only spot I can think of. Would one of the plugs from the motor provide pressurized oil?. How about a place for oil to return to the motor?

Tuning this type of system appeals to me as well. Can it all be done off of two injectors or would secondary injectors be a better idea. Are there tools in the tuners that increase the amount of fuel corresponding to boost or is this something that has to be figured out cell by cell? There is a lot of this that appeals to me. I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to put all the pieces together but it sure would be cool to get the chance. Take care and I hope I'm not the only one this appeals to.
 

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Let me start by saying that I am no expert. That said I do drive a turbo Subaru, WRX, so yes boosting appeals to me as cars go. Bikes, not so much. I'd rather have torque in large numbers off the bottom rather than at higher rpm. We are talking about heavy antiquated equipment here. Don't forget you're going to have to stop it. Possibly in a hurry. Wouldn't a 124" be more useful? Correct me if I'm wrong but 9:1 static CR + even a measly 3-4lbs boost is going to creat an effective CR of over 12:1 and is going to require race fuel of a high quality. I really don't think that amount of boost is going to creat the numbers you're hoping for. Don't shoot the messenger!!! I'm not trying to piss on your parade just playing devils advocate here and giving you some things to consider. And hey, I might be wrong too. It has happened before...I think...maybe, I really can't remember. Okay I'm going to get my vest on now. ?
 

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Ya start with low compression pistons , like 6.0 to 1 t o compensate for the boost .. RB does some good stuff , they have some good videos of their blown Roadie with all their goodies on the dash , they did some stuff for me many years ago ..

On the one hand turbos are the ultimate aw s^&% for cool , but in the end , I think I'd opt for more cubes ..
 

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Forced injunction is a blast.
Turbos are fun. But a very big turbo makes more top end power and less bottom end. I have found over many years of building blower/turbo bikes up to 600 hp the smaller turbos work great for Harleys if peak number are not an interest..
We just built over the winter 7 turbo build and ran 22 mm turbos
3 of them were 107 making at 8/9 boost 155/180 hp. To much boost to fast on HD,s is not the best thing you start blowing head gasket and could lift studs. If we run bigger turbos
Like 25/ mm or 28 mm we will change the motor design to make a progressive curve. I built 124 turbo engine for my 2015 RG waiting on Aero charger they are sending me a 66 series system for me to test and run should be according to the math 245/263 hp. Can't wait! Should be here I hope in mid April.

If you have questions just me a shout.
Thanks FD


Does forced induction appeal to anyone else? I have been looking at different "kits" and RB Racing's appeals to me the most. Having a huge turbo seems to make the most sense to produce the most amount of boost possible at the low rpms our Harley motors run. The huge intercooler makes sense too. Why would you hamper the flow? The thing that is not so fun about turbos is the cost which makes it cost preventative for me at this time which means let's talk about them and learn as much as we possibly can. I like the idea of running 9:1 compression with the ability to get up to 250 horse power or more. Is it necessary? Don't be silly, of course it is!

Is there a spot off the motor that will feed the turbo's bearings? The sending unit it the only spot I can think of. Would one of the plugs from the motor provide pressurized oil?. How about a place for oil to return to the motor?

Tuning this type of system appeals to me as well. Can it all be done off of two injectors or would secondary injectors be a better idea. Are there tools in the tuners that increase the amount of fuel corresponding to boost or is this something that has to be figured out cell by cell? There is a lot of this that appeals to me. I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to put all the pieces together but it sure would be cool to get the chance. Take care and I hope I'm not the only one this appeals to.
 

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Just finished our 2nd 117" turbo build this season, in between the all-motor 117"s and 124" builds.
Heat cycles were performed yesterday.
1st was built with a Fueling .575, our Stage IV Heads, 66mm S&S T/Hog and an Aero, and the 2nd, now, has a Wood 777 with a Trask unit, our Stage IV Heads, 66mm S&S T/Hog.
Both 2015 RG's.
The Trask has a hellava whistle to it.
The Aero tuned off to HUGE power, and was on the edge of needing a larger turbo as both were 103"ers, already equipped.
Scott
 

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Discussion Starter #6
How much attention needs to be paid to the bottom end? Upgrading the crank and doing the Timken bearing are on my list next. I like the look of the Trask system but wonder if the intercooler is big enough. I would be looking towards the next level of fun factor in doing this. I was looking up old posts on HTT yesterday reading all I can on the topic. Does the kit come with a new intake? I was just thinking of the vacuum hose on the stock intake. I imagine that would pop off quick if boost was added. I like that turbos aren't full time boost as much as I think a supercharger would be. I'd like the best of lower compression longevity and The power to get on it when I wanted. Does TTS Mastertune have tools for forced induction?

I'd like to thank the big boys for chiming in. The idea of starting this post was to provide a spot to ask all your turbo questions for community discussion. I want to know as much as I can about this before I pull the trigger.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
How do the stock head studs fair under boost? What is the best head gasket to seal the power?
 

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The systems do not come with intakes.
The crank is very important when going with forced induction.
Forge crank is best reworked right should handle big power. My favorite crank is from P3R ply wheels. Dave builds them custom specs for install.
The standard TTS is not set up for boost with 2 bar map sensor.
Steve and I have talked about this and he has been working on one for boosted bikes in his spare time. For now we use the thunder max with 2/3 bar map sensor. It has all the controls to tune in boosted bikes with its own software and timing and fuel trims under boost. The inter coolers on most systems are to small. Trask has made a bigger one for the 25/28mm but in my OP still little on the small side. When we get into our setups we can build bigger inter coolers that can flow 800 cfm of air for the turbos. I have been building boosted bikes for very long time. And have been down the road on what does not work so I will design and build what we need. We offer full line of custom blower/ turbo parts from pistons,cams etc., injectors and so is on.




QUOTE=BigNorm;3279977]How much attention needs to be paid to the bottom end? Upgrading the crank and doing the Timken bearing are on my list next. I like the look of the Trask system but wonder if the intercooler is big enough. I would be looking towards the next level of fun factor in doing this. I was looking up old posts on HTT yesterday reading all I can on the topic. Does the kit come with a new intake? I was just thinking of the vacuum hose on the stock intake. I imagine that would pop off quick if boost was added. I like that turbos aren't full time boost as much as I think a supercharger would be. I'd like the best of lower compression longevity and The power to get on it when I wanted. Does TTS Mastertune have tools for forced induction?

I'd like to thank the big boys for chiming in. The idea of starting this post was to provide a spot to ask all your turbo questions for community discussion. I want to know as much as I can about this before I pull the trigger.[/QUOTE]
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks Frank. I know it seems silly but how is the vacuum hose addressed? Hose clamp? Is there an additional sensor installed that measures boost? I didn't know that you built your own systems so I am very interested in that. I have a PCV right now and have heard it can work with boost or maybe it needs an autotuner to work. I'm learning as I type and am very thankful for all the help I have received.
 
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Just finished our 2nd 117" turbo build this season, in between the all-motor 117"s and 124" builds.
Heat cycles were performed yesterday.
1st was built with a Fueling .575, our Stage IV Heads, 66mm S&S T/Hog and an Aero, and the 2nd, now, has a Wood 777 with a Trask unit, our Stage IV Heads, 66mm S&S T/Hog.
Both 2015 RG's.
The Trask has a hellava whistle to it.
The Aero tuned off to HUGE power, and was on the edge of needing a larger turbo as both were 103"ers, already equipped.
Scott
Scott I would be interested in seeing the Dyno sheet from this build once your finished tuning it.You often talk of these builds but never post a dyno sheet.I would think after being in business 30yrs. you would be able to post at least one dyno sheet from all of your many builds.
 

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No I do not build my own EFI systems.
We use Thunder max gen 3 with 3 bar map sensor.
It has its own page for boost control timing fuel psi under load etc.,
It has to be tuned 100% on a Dyno.



Thanks Frank. I know it seems silly but how is the vacuum hose addressed? Hose clamp? Is there an additional sensor installed that measures boost? I didn't know that you built your own systems so I am very interested in that. I have a PCV right now and have heard it can work with boost or maybe it needs an autotuner to work. I'm learning as I type and am very thankful for all the help I have received.
 

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Here is my question but Scott I don't think you can answer this. I know I have talked with Joe when he has questions on tunes with boosted bikes.
How do you plan on lieing to the 1 bar map sensor? It will max KPa 1500 rpm when it goes under boost. Direct link can not adjust that then you will need much larger injectors.
But that's called BS-ing the ECU and the lag that's in a turbo. It will never be consistent with fuel. Your rideablity will be poor from 1000-3500 rpm.
Just food for thought ...
Thanks

QUOTE=Hillsidecycle.com;3284401]The T/Max is being removed from the Trask bike an Direct Link will be used.
Scott[/QUOTE]
 

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Here is my question but Scott I don't think you can answer this. I know I have talked with Joe when he has questions on tunes with boosted bikes.
How do you plan on lieing to the 1 bar map sensor? It will max KPa 1500 rpm when it goes under boost. Direct link can not adjust that then you will need much larger injectors.
But that's called BS-ing the ECU and the lag that's in a turbo. It will never be consistent with fuel. Your rideablity will be poor from 1000-3500 rpm.
Just food for thought ...
Thanks

QUOTE=Hillsidecycle.com;3284401]The T/Max is being removed from the Trask bike an Direct Link will be used.
Scott
[/QUOTE]

At the V-Twin show I sat in on a seminar with Techno Research. It has a calculator that you enter all the parameters of the engine and the amount of boost you will be using and calculates the size of injectors you will need for proper tuning. Pretty slick program and took all the guess work out of it. If I remember right, the objective was to keep the duty cycles of the injectors at 89-91 per cent. If I'm not right on some of this, I've slept since then but remember it was a great way to take the guess work out of it.
 

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The direct link is a nice system. For natural asprated bikes. When he finally comes out with a system to incorporate 2/3 bar map and live tuning it will be even better for blower/turbo app.
And you don't want to be 90% duty on a forced induction systems. You need to take in the outside temp as well (heat) will change the BSFC .69 works better under boosted bikes.
With big injectors you can only pull so much fuel down low before you shut them off . Tops End wide open you may be great.


At the V-Twin show I sat in on a seminar with Techno Research. It has a calculator that you enter all the parameters of the engine and the amount of boost you will be using and calculates the size of injectors you will need for proper tuning. Pretty slick program and took all the guess work out of it. If I remember right, the objective was to keep the duty cycles of the injectors at 89-91 per cent. If I'm not right on some of this, I've slept since then but remember it was a great way to take the guess work out of it.[/QUOTE]
 

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The direct link is a nice system. For natural asprated bikes. When he finally comes out with a system to incorporate 2/3 bar map and live tuning it will be even better for blower/turbo app.
And you don't want to be 90% duty on a forced induction systems. You need to take in the outside temp as well (heat) will change the BSFC .69 works better under boosted bikes.
With big injectors you can only pull so much fuel down low before you shut them off . Tops End wide open you may be great.




At the V-Twin show I sat in on a seminar with Techno Research. It has a calculator that you enter all the parameters of the engine and the amount of boost you will be using and calculates the size of injectors you will need for proper tuning. Pretty slick program and took all the guess work out of it. If I remember right, the objective was to keep the duty cycles of the injectors at 89-91 per cent. If I'm not right on some of this, I've slept since then but remember it was a great way to take the guess work out of it.
[/QUOTE]

I may have the 89-91 percent on the duty cycle wrong. That was a while ago and I don't have my info in front of me. I do know, there were a lot of guys there that boost bikes and the whole seminar that morning was about that and having a system that works with easy calculations. It was like fill in the blocks and it gave you the info you needed to size injectors properly. I know nothing about boosting a bike but was very interested in learning. Thanks for the good info.
 

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The programs in the tuners are nice helps with guess work. But we all know what works on a PC or paper does not always work in the real world. lol
Thanks


QUOTE=Smarty;3284897][/QUOTE]

I may have the 89-91 percent on the duty cycle wrong. That was a while ago and I don't have my info in front of me. I do know, there were a lot of guys there that boost bikes and the whole seminar that morning was about that and having a system that works with easy calculations. It was like fill in the blocks and it gave you the info you needed to size injectors properly. I know nothing about boosting a bike but was very interested in learning. Thanks for the good info.[/QUOTE]
 

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Here is my question but Scott I don't think you can answer this. I know I have talked with Joe when he has questions on tunes with boosted bikes.
How do you plan on lieing to the 1 bar map sensor? It will max KPa 1500 rpm when it goes under boost. Direct link can not adjust that then you will need much larger injectors.
But that's called BS-ing the ECU and the lag that's in a turbo. It will never be consistent with fuel. Your rideablity will be poor from 1000-3500 rpm.
Just food for thought ...
Thanks

QUOTE=Hillsidecycle.com;3284401]The T/Max is being removed from the Trask bike an Direct Link will be used.
Scott
[/QUOTE]

Your saying that you have "schooled" Joe's Cycle Repair |Mechanicville NY on tuning power-adder systems?
Am I understanding that correctly..........?
 

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Scott before you start putting words in my mouth.
you know what I meant.
I have talked with Joe before on tuning blower bikes on Vtwins.
Joe is a very nice guy and I get along with him.
So please don't start your BS here. Joe has asked me in past about tuning Vtwin with blowers. And I have explained to him how we do it.

And the question is how are you...( Scott ) Going to tune it 100% correct with a 1 bar map sensor that will max KPa at 1500/2000 rpm.
It simple question and just trying to help that no fights no BS.....



Thanks FD








Your saying that you have "schooled" Joe's Cycle Repair |Mechanicville NY on tuning power-adder systems?
Am I understanding that correctly..........?[/QUOTE]
 
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