Road Glide banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
286 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The bike is at the dealer as we speak but I'd like to pick everyones brain here for opinions.

I noticed a noise coming from the top end of my motor a few weeks ago. It only made the noise during acceleration and not while revving the bike in neutral. I know the normal noisey valve train sounds but this sounded like an actual valve noise.

I recently took a trip to sturgis and checked all fluids which were good and at proper levels. At this point I just chalked up the noise to being the valve train and me being ovet worried because of my upcoming trip.

The noise continued all through the trip and when I returned, I checked my fluids again and my oil was barely touching the bottom of the dipstick. There are no leaks externally on the motor so I leads me to believe its internal and possibly related to this noise. Any ideas?

It a 2013 103 motor with about 9k miles. Only motor work is a SE air cleaner, vance and hines true duals with rinehart slipons and a power vision tune from fuel moto.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,539 Posts
On the top end there is only 2 places that would contribute to oil consumption.
First is a bad crankcase breather and the oil is going into the intake and burned in the combustion chamber. There is not any visible sign of a crankcase breather problem except excessive oil in the air cleaner and throttle body.
The second is bad valve seals which allow the oil to drain directly into the combustion chambers to be burned. If the valve seals are bad you will see blue smoke on cold engine start up.
The only other thing that causes oil consumption is a piston ring problem.
As far as the top end noise you would have to pull the rocker covers and inspect the top end components.
If the repair tech at the dealer is any good he should find the problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
286 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply. Im patiently waiting for the dealer to give me a call with an update. Hopefully its something that can be rectified easily since as always, there is beautiful weather when I dont have my bike.

Im wanting to do cams over the winter so I figure its best to have all issues corrected before adding to an existing problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,539 Posts
Thanks for the reply. Im patiently waiting for the dealer to give me a call with an update. Hopefully its something that can be rectified easily since as always, there is beautiful weather when I dont have my bike.

Im wanting to do cams over the winter so I figure its best to have all issues corrected before adding to an existing problem.
If the lifters are going bad it will sound like top end noise. If the dealer has the rocker covers off or the lifter blocks and pushrods out and this repair is covered under warranty this would be the time to do the cams because the warranty will cover part of the labor cost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
286 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thats a good point. Ill have to give them a call to see what they have to say. They may correct the issue without even calling me if its warranty work. We shall see.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
286 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Just a quick update. The dealer said that because I use a K&N oil filter, that filter is too dense and is restricting oil pressure and flow. My air filter element is also saturated in oil. They say the lack of oil pressure is causing the noise I hear.

Seems difficult to believe that K&N would offer a filter specifically for a Harley when it was too restrictive.

Thoughts?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
286 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I agree. Based on their theory, people who successfully use k&n oil filters are lucky and they should cause problems.

Im no expert mechanic but I like to think im somewhat educated in mechanics. Can anyone explain how a pressure issue from the oil filter can cause excessive blowback into my air filter?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
508 Posts
Just a quick update. The dealer said that because I use a K&N oil filter, that filter is too dense and is restricting oil pressure and flow. My air filter element is also saturated in oil. They say the lack of oil pressure is causing the noise I hear.

Seems difficult to believe that K&N would offer a filter specifically for a Harley when it was too restrictive.

Thoughts?
Did they take the rocker covers off like ironmark mentioned ? I am hearing loud valve train noises from my 2012, but also not while revving it in neutral. running a K & N filter as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
198 Posts
I'm certainly no expert but would think filter blockage would increase pressure interested in final outcome
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
286 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
They did not remove the boxes to my knowledge.

I contacted k&n and their customer service is top notch. They explained....hypothetical...that if there was 90psi going in but only 40psi going out due to a thicker element inside the filter, the filter internals would collapse on themselves amd cease to function.

Theu further explained that they make their filters to Harley spec, so their filters are relatively the same.

Id be much happier if the dealer could explain in detail why they believe what they believe. But they don't, and that is frustrating me.

I will be waiting for their call tomorrow for an update.

If anyone here would like to educate me, please feel free. Id really like to understand this more so I can counter what the dealer will say because we all know it will usually be bs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
483 Posts
The only explanation I can give you is that Harley does not want to repair the problem under warranty and since you have used aftermarket products that can be related to your issues they will use that to avoid any and all repairs under warranty , JMO .

Eagle
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,539 Posts
Looks like the repair tech and service manager can't find the problem or are to lazy to find the problem and they are trying to pass the buck on you by saying you are using a aftermarket part and the aftermarket part is causing the problem. Of course they will hand you a bill and your warranty will not cover the cost of the work. Pure dealer BS DON'T let them get away with it.

There is 2 reasons there is a lot of oil in the air filter
1- too much oil in the engine, the manual calls for 4 qts but you should only put in 3 1/2 qts when doing a oil change. Any excess oil will exit the engine at higher rpm through the crankcase breather and into the air filter and in most cases you will have oil dripping on the cam cover.

2- if the oil level is good than the crankcase breathers may be faulty which usually a bad umbrella valve in the crankcase breather.

I would take a close look at the lifters causing the top end noise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
286 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Well finally talked to the dealer....I had to call them, they didnt call me....and they told me just from putting on a Harley oil filter, my issues went away.

I found it funny that when I asked if my valve noise had disappeared, the service writer said that nothing about a valve noise were in the comments on the service ticket, so he put me on hold and came back on 30 seconds later and said that it had disappeared.

An oil change/filter and new air filter element cost $211. What a joke...

I probably can't pick the bike up until tomorrow so we'll see if the noise actually went away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
286 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
The sad part is there are dealers closer to me but ive always bought my bikes from this dealer and when I needed warranty work for a warped rotor, I brought it there. This is my third bike from them and first negative experience so im slightly caught off guard by this situation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,390 Posts
The sad part is there are dealers closer to me but ive always bought my bikes from this dealer and when I needed warranty work for a warped rotor, I brought it there. This is my third bike from them and first negative experience so im slightly caught off guard by this situation.
Since you have a relationship with this dealer, give them the benefit of the doubt and see if issue is fixed? And if it re-appears, then have them fix it under warranty.

'Have heard of this issue with K&Ns before (I use HD oil filters), but I also know guys (that do big miles) that use K&Ns without issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
198 Posts
While similar issues may have multiple fixes I can tell you first hand I have gone back and forth between MOCO and K&N filters. Even tried different oils both synthetic, dino, and blends. The one constant is the noise and some consumption remain the same.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
A clogged dirty filter or an over oiled filter can cause excessive blow back out the oil filter. Instead of sucking air your bike sucks the oil in. I try to clean my filter a little more frequently especially exposed filters. Not saying that's your problem but it can cause oil consumption, I had that issue. Why didn't they service your k&n? You authorized the oil change and filter change?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
286 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
It just seems like an odd situation and of course im instantly skeptical of the dealers very quick analysis. I would love for them to be right and disprove my worries. We will see when I pick it up today. And yes, I authorized the oil and filter change. In my eyes, that is the dealers one shot to recitify the situation their way. I did not expect such a big bill though. That seems a bit ridiculous.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top