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Well I've been on roadglide.org , this forum for about 1 year and I have a terrible tendency to never pay attention or overlook threads that may be related to me, but sure enough this one about the VH FP3 pack is.

Found out today after my 18' M8 scoot has been having issues. So, Mike, the service manager, from harley dealer up here, mentions that, if they put your bike on a scanner and is flagged with an aftermarket tuner, your HD warranty and ESP will be voided.

Now, original warranty when you buy your bike new is, the engine/transmission section- that's to say you may still be eligible for warranty on other area as: (CAN-BUS), ABS, Radio Diagnostics, Lighting,Battery and Accessories.

Now, here's where they get you-you may incur say,for example a 'low idle temperature sensor', however, its not as clean cut as it sounds, if the dealer calls up harley headquarters or something, and they find out that the low idle temp sensor, does not fall under the category of 'SENSOR'....it may have a sub heading, where since this is connected to the ECM, and that this particular sensor monitors the low idling of the engine, therefore this sensor may not be covered and will not be classified as just a sensor, but rather under engine/transmission.

Does that make sense?
So, the service manager says, you could have reset your tuner to default and chances are your warranty would not have been voided.

Then he says, I'm surprised your taking it so well,lol...what am I suppose to do, flip out and lose it. I put on the FP3 myself, along with my 14'inch apes, and tormentor RCX headers and TAB mufflers with zombie baffles and aftermarket precision billet footboards.

If I had known, I should say, I never would have installed a FP3 Vance and Hynes auto tune. I mean you buy a $30,000 motorcycle and you void the warranty with a $300 gadget is stupid to me, however, again no one told me.

He did insist that if I put on a Harley tuner with a screamin eagle kit, your warranty would not have been voided, now I know why people put on screamin eagle kits on brand new bikes, its for the warranty. Lets face it, nothing sounds good or is as tempting like the endless amount of aftermarket mufflers to choose from and where you can add a nice set of straight pipes, its just not the same. You grow addicted to that sound. And rightfully so!!!!
 

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Thank you for owning your shit. Lol. Sorry your warranty is void.

That's exactly why I went with the SEPST. I dont want to lose the warranty on my 19.
 

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Well I've been on roadglide.org , this forum for about 1 year and I have a terrible tendency to never pay attention or overlook threads that may be related to me, but sure enough this one about the VH FP3 pack is.



Found out today after my 18' M8 scoot has been having issues. So, Mike, the service manager, from harley dealer up here, mentions that, if they put your bike on a scanner and is flagged with an aftermarket tuner, your HD warranty and ESP will be voided.



John here is some info from the good old Interwebs once again.



What To Do If Your Warranty Claim Is Denied



If a dealer denies a warranty claim involving an implied or expressed new motorcycle warranty, and you would like to help stop this practice, you need to take action. Obtain a written copy of the refusal to honor the warranty. Then, Contact the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). The FTC works for all of us to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help you spot, stop and avoid them. To file a complaint, you can call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357), or use the online complaint form. This information is put into the Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies worldwide.



If a dealer denies a warranty claim having to do with emissions or the clean air act such as emission part failure, get a written explanation of the dealers refusal to honor the warranty. Then follow the steps outlined in your motorcycle owners manual. However, if this fails, then phone your complaint in to the EPA at (202) 233-9040 or (202) 326-9100.



When I first bought My 2012 RG Custom the Sales Manager told me to make sure I had them do the first 1000 mile service or my brand new motorcycle's warranty would be voided. I laughed and left and have never brought my bike anywhere for repairs as I am fortunate enough to have the knowledge and tools to repair My Glide on My own.



Hope this helps.

Best of Luck Bro!

Mike U.
 

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yeah, the ftc is not going to do anything for you in this case. you put on a non epa certified 'performance' off road only part which makes your bike illegal to operate on the road. this is not a 'deceptive' practice. this is actually hd catching up with the rest of the automotive world. buy a diesel truck, put a tuner on it, and you may not even be able to get your trucked worked on if you have a breakdown.

I feel for the op, I really do. but, even by his own admission, he didn't pay attention to all the warnings.
 

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This isn't anything NEW as auto manufactures have been doing this for years. Buy a new Jeep and put a lift kit on it? They can void parts of your warranty.
I just bought a 2018 Ram 3500 with a CTD (Cummins Turbo Diesel) and if I hook up a tuner to it my drivetrain warranty is VOID. You think it's bad on a $30K rig try doing it to a $80K rig. Sorry to hear about this but you need to be informed before you do things to your bike.

I just bought a 2015 CVO RGU and bought the ESP to go with it. So to keep my ESP I have to use the SESPT.
 

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lol..another thread. you CAN NOT MODIFY ANY EMISSION OR INTAKE on ANY new vehicle and maintain MFG Std Warranty if aftermarket parts are used

ANY vehicle....its not just Harley
 

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This isn't anything NEW as auto manufactures have been doing this for years. Buy a new Jeep and put a lift kit on it? They can void parts of your warranty.
I just bought a 2018 Ram 3500 with a CTD (Cummins Turbo Diesel) and if I hook up a tuner to it my drivetrain warranty is VOID. You think it's bad on a $30K rig try doing it to a $80K rig. Sorry to hear about this but you need to be informed before you do things to your bike.

I just bought a 2015 CVO RGU and bought the ESP to go with it. So to keep my ESP I have to use the SESPT.
thank you!!!! im guessing the reason people are surprised by this is because they dont modify cars like they do motorycles so their experience with it is limited

and I work in the heavy Equipment industry...we have had tto void engine warranty on 600K priced equipment because some idiot thought he could disconnect the DPF....swallow that pill...
 

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Does Harley have a flash for a stage 1 upgrade like they did with the twin cams or do you have to use their tuner on M8 engines?
 

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So something to think about.

IF you want to use an aftermarket tuner and keep your warranty how about dropping $280 for a new ECM. Take the original one out, install, update and tune the new one. If you have issues that will require warranty work swap out the ECM to the original one. I have been told that the speedo has the mileage saved in it not the ECM.
 

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Does Harley have a flash for a stage 1 upgrade like they did with the twin cams or do you have to use their tuner on M8 engines?
they no longer have the stage 1 flash. have to use the sepst now.

So something to think about.

IF you want to use an aftermarket tuner and keep your warranty how about dropping $280 for a new ECM. Take the original one out, install, update and tune the new one. If you have issues that will require warranty work swap out the ECM to the original one. I have been told that the speedo has the mileage saved in it not the ECM.
I've heard that the mileage is stored in the ecm. I've also heard that the mileage is stored in the bcm. what you suggest 'may' work, but that would mean having to travel with your spare ecm on your bike at all times. then you'd still be at the mercy of the dealer to look the other way on the non-epa exhaust.
 

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Well I've been on roadglide.org , this forum for about 1 year and I have a terrible tendency to never pay attention or overlook threads that may be related to me, but sure enough this one about the VH FP3 pack is.

Found out today after my 18' M8 scoot has been having issues. So, Mike, the service manager, from harley dealer up here, mentions that, if they put your bike on a scanner and is flagged with an aftermarket tuner, your HD warranty and ESP will be voided.

Now, original warranty when you buy your bike new is, the engine/transmission section- that's to say you may still be eligible for warranty on other area as: (CAN-BUS), ABS, Radio Diagnostics, Lighting,Battery and Accessories.

Now, here's where they get you-you may incur say,for example a 'low idle temperature sensor', however, its not as clean cut as it sounds, if the dealer calls up harley headquarters or something, and they find out that the low idle temp sensor, does not fall under the category of 'SENSOR'....it may have a sub heading, where since this is connected to the ECM, and that this particular sensor monitors the low idling of the engine, therefore this sensor may not be covered and will not be classified as just a sensor, but rather under engine/transmission.

Does that make sense?
So, the service manager says, you could have reset your tuner to default and chances are your warranty would not have been voided.

Then he says, I'm surprised your taking it so well,lol...what am I suppose to do, flip out and lose it. I put on the FP3 myself, along with my 14'inch apes, and tormentor RCX headers and TAB mufflers with zombie baffles and aftermarket precision billet footboards.

If I had known, I should say, I never would have installed a FP3 Vance and Hynes auto tune. I mean you buy a $30,000 motorcycle and you void the warranty with a $300 gadget is stupid to me, however, again no one told me.

He did insist that if I put on a Harley tuner with a screamin eagle kit, your warranty would not have been voided, now I know why people put on screamin eagle kits on brand new bikes, its for the warranty. Lets face it, nothing sounds good or is as tempting like the endless amount of aftermarket mufflers to choose from and where you can add a nice set of straight pipes, its just not the same. You grow addicted to that sound. And rightfully so!!!!
What problems are you having with the bike that made you take it to the shop ?
 

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As much as people hate it the SESPT is it if you want to keep your warranty. I had a 2002 Ram 2500 I had bought used and the injection pump started to go bad. The truck was still under the 100,000 mile warranty so I took it to the dealer and got told to bad so sad but someone had installed a tuner on the truck. Back then you had to pierce the wire going to VP pump which I hadn't looked at closely. So I had to eat a $1K part and I didn't get to enjoy a tuned truck.

It is the same in the Jeep world when people ask about throwing a older engine into a newer Jeep. Illegal by EPA standards but many don't have emissions testing where they live so they figure they can get away with it. Foolish to me but people still do it. I feel for anyone who isn't in the know and I hope threads like this might help make them aware. Even as frustrating as it is to read multiple threads on the subject.
 

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I've heard that the mileage is stored in the ecm. I've also heard that the mileage is stored in the bcm. what you suggest 'may' work, but that would mean having to travel with your spare ecm on your bike at all times. then you'd still be at the mercy of the dealer to look the other way on the non-epa exhaust.
I just ordered a ThunderMax and if I have issues I will just get the bike trailered back to my house and switch out the ECM before I take it to the dealer. If I go on a trip I will just take the ECM with me because it is relatively small and easy to pack in the luggage. I'm also sticking with the HD Hp cam for now so the ECM will be the only thing I have to switch. If that ever happens and somehow the say they can tell that it has been tampered with I will just take it back home and order my own parts to fix it. I know that what I am doing has that risk. Eventually I will not worry about any warranty and will never worry about my bike needing to go into a dealers service department. Now I know that this is not a great option for everyone.
 

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sounds like a plan. i'm really curious about the mileage though. is it stored in the ecm, bcm, and speedo? if you pull out your ecm and replace with the thundermax, will your ecm autoupdate the next time you plug it in?

inquiring minds want to know....
 
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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Good Question:

The service manager tells me that since my bike has been flagged by HD that there is noway he can pull out the trouble codes because its an aftermarket tuner. As opposed to if it were a harley tuner, then he would be able to figure out with more concise results what type of trouble codes are being pulled.

So then, I basically go, you want me to buy a Harley tuner, so you can figure out what DTC's are being displayed because of the flag that HD has on my bike? So, the smart ass tells me yes, because right now, Harley has a block on your vin and we cant diagnose what the problems are exactly.

So, I told him, since the FP3 from VH has a default mode, why don't I come down and reflash my bike back to default and that way they can figure what codes are stored. He's telling me 99% confident that its the FP3 VH tuner are shooting off historical codes that are because everytime I had the bike at my house for the past couple of months, the same exact DTC codes after I cleared them came back, which were LHCM (left hand control module), etc...(Ill list them below for you guys to check out)

This whole thing started when I got a constant check engine light that stayed lit, it was idling really awful. When I started it and after it warmed up, the bike started idling at about 1200 and then it would drop to 500 and then back up to 1000, and then dropped to 400, and then repeat and repeat until finally it stalled.

This was when I was sitting idle in my garage or while I was riding and came to a red light and it would stall out.

This began about 1 week ago, strangely enough after I washed my bike, all those symptoms came back, and I was getting all U-code (CAN/BUS) error codes- U0141, U0185, U0001, U0003, U0181, U0156, U0158, U0121, they were losing comm with amp1, lost comm with speedo, lost comm with ABS, lost comm with ECM, etc...

I also washed my inner fairing about 1 month ago and the guy told me luckily your HERTZ speakers were under warranty so I got new speakers and he said to me don't wash with a garden hose your inner fairing (where all the electronics go and your air filter because water can get inside the throttle body, and I'm gonna admit, I drenched the bike, it was dirty!)..but that's to say whoever washes there bike are gonna have problems with there check engine lights and speakers?...I don't know man. This is the very 1st road glide I have ever owned and these are very,very hard lessons (let alone) and expensive lessons to learn.

I'm not gonna lie and tell you I didn't do any of these things, but I did.

I had absolutely no problems like this with my very first Harley, which was my muscle VROD.
Although, I do remember after washing it, I had marine speakers so I didn't have to worry about getting them drenched, but when I did wash the speedo, it did give me some crap for a couple of days but it ran just fine and after a couple of days, whatever was in there that I got wet, dried up and was fine.

Anyway, after all was said and done, the service manager at HD told me he would restore it and would reflash if to factory map

Ill keep you posted

John S
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Also: I do want to mention, I asked the HD service manager, whu do people autotune.
He basically told me, in a nutshell, the main reason is if they are planning on doing engine work in the future. For example, such as, cam upgrades, stage 3, stage 4 upgrades, and i told him straight up, I am not interested in engine upgrades, I plan on only doing the STAGE 1 upgrade and thats it. Im not into speed because Im not 21 anymore.

If I want speed, Ill go buy a hayabusa.

And then he began to tell me about how HArley got sued by the EPA (or was it Vance and Hynes), which i found very interesting. Becasue hes telling me he has a harley tuner on his bike. But it was a very long story but I am not FP3 certified as to what the hell he was talking about, but something to the effect that the FP3 is 10% over there EPA limit and Harley came back and questioned it, and that Harley also got rid of 1 of there old supertuners because due to the fact that it also violated EPA standards as well, and someone ended up paying a 15 million dollar fine.

So, then Im like so anybody that owns a FP3 tuner is going to have problems and if so, why is Vance and Hynes making the FP3, he tells me so they can make money. So then Im like, every single FP3 that's been sold are producing issues on peoples harleys. But, I'm assuming that people have gone above putting in Stage 1 updates to there bikes, so therefore the FP3 is still compatible to the numerous updates harley owners have done.

Whatever, I didn't have the patience or the stamina to argue with this guy because, lets face it, HD just as Vance and Hynes and every one else are in business to make money. I just wished somebody told me about the whole warranty thing being voided if you install a FP2 fuelpak, I just feel that was a low blow to me, and that just wasn't cool. because if I have known I would not have invested a $300 gadget to a $30,000 warranty to a bike.

But, like anything else, you find out after the fact, which burns me up even more, because I'm starting to lose my confidence in some people's honesty, which saddens me.

I'm still not 100% satisfied with my HD dealer because i feel he is holding back vital information that can be solved like that it could possibly be something simple a bad sensor on my bike instead of trying to rob me for $4-500, which I'm assuming he'll probably charge.

When he asked the tech that was working on my bike, he failed to mention to him the main reason why I brought it in was for that bad idoling issue, he goes and tells me, oh the tech didn't see that, but when i asked him again, he asks his tech and he goes, oh yes he did see the idoling issue. So, 'why the F%^% did you tell me no for'?

See thats what pisses me off, liars and thieves and at your local HD dealers too!
 

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Well I've been on roadglide.org , this forum for about 1 year and I have a terrible tendency to never pay attention or overlook threads that may be related to me, but sure enough this one about the VH FP3 pack is.

Found out today after my 18' M8 scoot has been having issues. So, Mike, the service manager, from harley dealer up here, mentions that, if they put your bike on a scanner and is flagged with an aftermarket tuner, your HD warranty and ESP will be voided.

Now, original warranty when you buy your bike new is, the engine/transmission section- that's to say you may still be eligible for warranty on other area as: (CAN-BUS), ABS, Radio Diagnostics, Lighting,Battery and Accessories.

Now, here's where they get you-you may incur say,for example a 'low idle temperature sensor', however, its not as clean cut as it sounds, if the dealer calls up harley headquarters or something, and they find out that the low idle temp sensor, does not fall under the category of 'SENSOR'....it may have a sub heading, where since this is connected to the ECM, and that this particular sensor monitors the low idling of the engine, therefore this sensor may not be covered and will not be classified as just a sensor, but rather under engine/transmission.

Does that make sense?
So, the service manager says, you could have reset your tuner to default and chances are your warranty would not have been voided.

Then he says, I'm surprised your taking it so well,lol...what am I suppose to do, flip out and lose it. I put on the FP3 myself, along with my 14'inch apes, and tormentor RCX headers and TAB mufflers with zombie baffles and aftermarket precision billet footboards.

If I had known, I should say, I never would have installed a FP3 Vance and Hynes auto tune. I mean you buy a $30,000 motorcycle and you void the warranty with a $300 gadget is stupid to me, however, again no one told me.

He did insist that if I put on a Harley tuner with a screamin eagle kit, your warranty would not have been voided, now I know why people put on screamin eagle kits on brand new bikes, its for the warranty. Lets face it, nothing sounds good or is as tempting like the endless amount of aftermarket mufflers to choose from and where you can add a nice set of straight pipes, its just not the same. You grow addicted to that sound. And rightfully so!!!!
So, your VIN is flagged for sure? Go find an independent, and now do what you want to the bike.
 
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