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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
If your bike is liquid cooled, be aware you might face availability problems on your trips

The unfamous and unreliable Coolant Pump 26600012 is marked as “obsolete” in the HD parts database, the availability at dealership is very scarse and no alternatives are available at this moment on the market.

Despite it looks like many automotive liquid pumps like the Bosch ones, in reality it is “built to fit” only HD, so no commercial replacement is available at this time.

In preparation for my summer road trip i asked yesterday my friend to buy one in the Philly area, the dealer had one, THE LAST, and told my friend he was lucky because there are few available around and no immediate alternative from HD is foreseen at this moment. The pump cost was 459$

The risk is that if it fail on a road trip and no pumps are around your area to face the following choices:
  1. being stranded for days waiting for a spare to arrive
  2. Stop the trip and tow the bike home
  3. Rent a car or bike to carry on the trip and recover the bike later on
  4. Continuing riding with no pump risking of damaging the heads (water cool down mostly the exhaust valves)
Any of them is an expensive option......

In light of the fact that the pump soon or later will fail, I decided to invest in peace of mind and I will take this spare pump in the bag just in case. It is possible that my’19 will present a different pump that could be retrofitted in the old models, but it is just my assumption. In the meanwhile, the riding season is now, I’m going to North Cape - Norway and I do not want to remain stranded up there for an obsolete part.

Just to bring the thing to your attention for the proper considerations if you are planning a big summer trip
 

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I don’t know much about the wet head but it is still just an air cooled engine, no? The wet head just allows you to continue to make the same power on a really hot day that you would on a cooler day by keeping the head cool. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t see any reason, without ever seeing how this works mind you, that you couldn’t pinch those hoses off and continue on your trip without the head cooling system.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
In my knowledge, the liquid cooled have an higher compression rate, so the main purpose of refrigerating the heads is to maintain a regular combustion and to cool down the exhaust valves.
Surely riding without it is possible (I listed in the options list) because of the mixed air/liquid cooling, but I’m not sure if doing it for something more than reaching the closest dealer is a smart thing to do in terms of endurance.
If something is in there, it is because it has a job that needs to be done.

My point here is only to advise that this part is in shortage, then is up to anybody to take this into account or not independently from my personal choice.
 

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I have been hearing about people putting the M8 style pumps on older scooters. It involves swapping out for the M8 regulator mount and cooling tubes as well as the pump hoses and a new cover. I'll bet there is a package from the MoCo to just that. For some reason these upgrade kits never make it into the parts look up system.

Past that, they have to supply pumps. They have a legal requirement, 7 years IIRC. But that doesn't mean that there couldn't be some hiccups with availability.
 

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I don’t know much about the wet head but it is still just an air cooled engine, no? The wet head just allows you to continue to make the same power on a really hot day that you would on a cooler day by keeping the head cool. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t see any reason, without ever seeing how this works mind you, that you couldn’t pinch those hoses off and continue on your trip without the head cooling system.
It makes sense and it’s what I thought too. The reality is, no can do. My pump went out sooner than later. Called and was told “sure, ride it on in, no problem”, so I did. Speaking to the service manager, was told I could have caused damage. Unlike the air cooled engines, apparently there are passages in the wet head that are very thin and can be damaged if ridden too far with a faulty pump. Been a year and no problems, but if it goes out again, won’t chance it. IIRC, they had a bad source for pumps, and rectified the problem. I see it as a matter of when, not a matter of if it goes out again. Water pumps go out, and the same thing could happen (and has) while driving my car. I don’t see supply as a problem. There are other things that can crap out on these bikes that could leave you stranded and the dealer might have to wait for. I don’t worry about it.
 

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It makes sense and it’s what I thought too. The reality is, no can do. My pump went out sooner than later. Called and was told “sure, ride it on in, no problem”, so I did. Speaking to the service manager, was told I could have caused damage. Unlike the air cooled engines, apparently there are passages in the wet head that are very thin and can be damaged if ridden too far with a faulty pump. Been a year and no problems, but if it goes out again, won’t chance it. IIRC, they had a bad source for pumps, and rectified the problem. I see it as a matter of when, not a matter of if it goes out again. Water pumps go out, and the same thing could happen (and has) while driving my car. I don’t see supply as a problem. There are other things that can crap out on these bikes that could leave you stranded and the dealer might have to wait for. I don’t worry about it.
Well I’m glad someone more knowledgeable than myself corrected me. Im curious now though how do you know the water pump has quit? Weep hole, water temp, do you have a water temp dummy light?
 

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I picture being a mechanical water pump, making the same clickbang bearing sound all make when goingout bad.
 

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how do you know the water pump has quit? Weep hole, water temp, do you have a water temp dummy light?
The amber engine light in the speedometer housing came on, and there’s a red temperature light in the tach that came on at the same time.
It also threw a DTC 1019 that I looked up and could have been a number of things. The bottom of the shroud was wet, but not dripping or soaked. Coolant levels were fine.
Had just finished installing a Stage 1 and a PowerVision and coincidentally crapped out as I was test riding. Just tooling along, not dogging it. Thought I screwed something up with the install, or that the PowerVision was causing issues. The pump is electronic so didn’t get the usual clacking, grinding or coolant puddle you would normally hear/see with a car.
 

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The wet head came to market in 2014. So you are saying that if you have a 2014 Wet head and the coolant pump goes out you are out a 2014 bike. Just park it no options. Do you expect many to really believe that. Some will do anything to post their anit Harley rants. Their is no 2014 Harley parked for the scrap pile because a pump was discontinued.

26600012 - COOLANT PUMP Harley-Davidson® Parts and Accessories

https://shop.newcastlehd.com/part/26600012

https://shop.newcastlehd.com/part/26600012

The list goes on and on.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
The wet head came to market in 2014. So you are saying that if you have a 2014 Wet head and the coolant pump goes out you are out a 2014 bike. Just park it no options. Do you expect many to really believe that. Some will do anything to post their anit Harley rants. Their is no 2014 Harley parked for the scrap pile because a pump was discontinued.

26600012 - COOLANT PUMP Harley-Davidson® Parts and Accessories

https://shop.newcastlehd.com/part/26600012

https://shop.newcastlehd.com/part/26600012

The list goes on and on.
The fact that you can order does not necessary imply that they can deliver on the spot.....

By definition obsolescence is “an event leading to diminish the possibility to procure/using an item” and also my area of responsibility in my actual job.....

If the pump is declared obsolete, I assume HD made a LTB (Last Time Buy) in order to guarantee a limited supply for both production and support while they are defining a solution (new 3F (Form Fit & Function) vendor or redesign). In the support case normally a limited number of spares is made available for pre-determined geographical areas (if they’re smart by setting the numbers in accordance with the removal statistics) while a core is maintained in a central deposit to fill the gap when needed in the troubled areas.

What does it mean to the Customers. It means that if you are lucky your local dealer has the pump on hand and case solved. If he has not, then you have to hope it is available in the area of interest and it will take a few days. In case the local area is short then the reference become the central deposit, and then the spare will probably take weeks according to the efficiency of the chain.

Let’s take my case: my friend was defined “lucky” by the parts manager because he got the last part he had in stock otherwise the waiting could have been long.

This means that if you have a pump failure THIS MORNING and THAT is the closest dealership from where you are, the answers you will get will be “sorry, we have to order the spare” and “deliver will depend by availability and shipping time”.

At that point obsolescence will have impacted you. It is not a rant, it is simply the way obsolescence work.

How to resolve: first of all, obsolescence is never resolved, it is managed. The management can be left at vendor level, HD in this case, so you rely on them to provide the part when needed in accordance to their timing, or as a User you can take your precautionary measures to cover your operational needs (as I did)

Again, pumps are there for you ,but very probably in limited availability. It is not the end of the world but the information is there so you can manage it in the way you prefer.

And again, the fact that you can order does not imply that it can be immediately delivered, this is what the backorder are for.....

Last, I can also be wrong and having overreacted due to my experience. You can still place some calls to your area dealers and check the COOLANT PUMP 26600012 availability. I’ll be happy to be demonstrated as wrong, more piece of mind for me because bike is still under warranty so I’ll keep my spare for the future and in the meanwhile I’ll will have the installed pump eventually replaced for free if it fails

See also a backorder example in Europe: https://estore.manchester-harley-davidson.co.uk/buy-coolant-pump-26600012-p66268.html
 

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If your bike is liquid cooled, be aware you might face availability problems on your trips

The unfamous and unreliable Coolant Pump 26600012 is marked as “obsolete” in the HD parts database, the availability at dealership is very scarse and no alternatives are available at this moment on the market.

Despite it looks like many automotive liquid pumps like the Bosch ones, in reality it is “built to fit” only HD, so no commercial replacement is available at this time.

In preparation for my summer road trip i asked yesterday my friend to buy one in the Philly area, the dealer had one, THE LAST, and told my friend he was lucky because there are few available around and no immediate alternative from HD is foreseen at this moment. The pump cost was 459$

The risk is that if it fail on a road trip and no pumps are around your area to face the following choices:
  1. being stranded for days waiting for a spare to arrive
  2. Stop the trip and tow the bike home
  3. Rent a car or bike to carry on the trip and recover the bike later on
  4. Continuing riding with no pump risking of damaging the heads (water cool down mostly the exhaust valves)
Any of them is an expensive option......

In light of the fact that the pump soon or later will fail, I decided to invest in peace of mind and I will take this spare pump in the bag just in case. It is possible that my’19 will present a different pump that could be retrofitted in the old models, but it is just my assumption. In the meanwhile, the riding season is now, I’m going to North Cape - Norway and I do not want to remain stranded up there for an obsolete part.

Just to bring the thing to your attention for the proper considerations if you are planning a big summer trip


Hi if something happen when you ride in Sweden i will help you at the best i can


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk
 

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Following now. 60* morning and on the way to work this morning the engine and temp lights came on. Data on the powervision tuner show high engine temps but low coolant temp.

2016 RGU, 14,900 miles. 6 months out of warranty.

Can’t attach picture with the current forum troubles, but it shows 266* engine temp and 59* coolant temp.
 

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Following now. 60* morning and on the way to work this morning the engine and temp lights came on. Data on the powervision tuner show high engine temps but low coolant temp.



2016 RGU, 14,900 miles. 6 months out of warranty.



Can’t attach picture with the current forum troubles, but it shows 266* engine temp and 59* coolant temp.


It must be the pump not working i think


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Following now. 60* morning and on the way to work this morning the engine and temp lights came on. Data on the powervision tuner show high engine temps but low coolant temp.

2016 RGU, 14,900 miles. 6 months out of warranty.

Can’t attach picture with the current forum troubles, but it shows 266* engine temp and 59* coolant temp.
And dealers are closed on Monday......

Sorry to hear that, I would suggest to call the dealers in your area for parts availability before to decide who will make the repair. Thermostat could be an issue as well in your case, but that is not impacted by availability issues for what I know.

Please keep this updated, I would be more than happy if I’m wrong with this obsolescence sh*t
 

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And dealers are closed on Monday......

Sorry to hear that, I would suggest to call the dealers in your area for parts availability before to decide who will make the repair. Thermostat could be an issue as well in your case, but that is not impacted by availability issues for what I know.

Please keep this updated, I would be more than happy if I’m wrong with this obsolescence sh*t
Update: Only dealer around that has one is up in Mechanicsburg PA (1.5 hours away) and they want over $100 more ($433) than online prices I’ve seen, I love supporting the local guys but damn Sam. The guy at Gettysburg HD told me the same, that is was showing obsolete on HDNet with nothing to supersede it.

My first Harley now is a official garage queen due to this crap, at least I still have my sporty to run around on.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Update: Only dealer around that has one is up in Mechanicsburg PA (1.5 hours away) and they want over $100 more ($433) than online prices I’ve seen, I love supporting the local guys but damn Sam. The guy at Gettysburg HD told me the same, that is was showing obsolete on HDNet with nothing to supersede it.

My first Harley now is a official garage queen due to this crap, at least I still have my sporty to run around on.
my friend got the one for me in the Philly area for $459, the price asked to you is in line with the dealer's official price I presume.....
 

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my friend got the one for me in the Philly area for $459, the price asked to you is in line with the dealer's official price I presume.....
Yup, I read that above.

I'm having a real issue however paying $433 for an already obsoleted part that they know has issues. I think I'm going to take this apart and see what I can do, I'm fairly mechanically and electrically gifted, so what do I have to loose right? I read of one guy that found gelled coolant around the pump blocking everything up, or there is a small chance it's a thermostat.

Anyway, I'll keep this updated, unfortunately not with pics since the forum is still F'ed :wink:

Hoping for an updated part soon! Does the M8 use the same pump? I haven't had a chance to look it up in the online parts system yet...
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yup, I read that above.

I'm having a real issue however paying $433 for an already obsoleted part that they know has issues. I think I'm going to take this apart and see what I can do, I'm fairly mechanically and electrically gifted, so what do I have to loose right? I read of one guy that found gelled coolant around the pump blocking everything up, or there is a small chance it's a thermostat.

Anyway, I'll keep this updated, unfortunately not with pics since the forum is still F'ed :wink:

Hoping for an updated part soon! Does the M8 use the same pump? I haven't had a chance to look it up in the online parts system yet...
I was thinking it was the same and that the only difference was the absence of the thermostat and the bypass, because on M8 the pump is managed by the ECU, but then I found it s a different one and particularly "the pump was upgraded and is now a variable speed, electronic pump controlled by the ECM. It does not use a thermostat."

article explaining it here:2017 Milwaukee Eight Liquid Cooling and Oiling System Review | The Cycle Blog
 

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Update:
Well I may have fixed the pump tonight :surprise::grin:

I determined the pump was indeed NOT running after taking the front protective cover off (the bike that is) and forcing the fans and pump on by rolling on the throttle. Verified 12 volts at the pump connector next so I removed the pump to inspect. After finally getting the rear cover open (more on that later in a detailed post) , I found a open connection that was spot welded/resistance welded and probably vibrated apart. after soldering it back together I tested it on the bike and the pump ran! I am going to resolder all similar the connections (about 4 others), then do finally assembly, fill/purge the system, and give it a good test ride before I call it "fixed", but I think I'm there.

I will do a good detailed thread on opening the motor and other key points later, I have pictures too.
 
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