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I'm trying to decide which direction to go b/w these two. If I don't plan on ever doing engine work (not to say that I won't "ever") is it necessary to go w/ the Mastertune over the PC-V? It seems like the MT is the better option given it's user friendly setup but is it overkill if all I'm doing is exhaust, header pipe and a/c? Should I consider a SEST as well? Zanotti has a good price on the MT and SEST.
 

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I'm trying to decide which direction to go b/w these two. If I don't plan on ever doing engine work (not to say that I won't "ever") is it necessary to go w/ the Mastertune over the PC-V? It seems like the MT is the better option given it's user friendly setup but is it overkill if all I'm doing is exhaust, header pipe and a/c? Should I consider a SEST as well? Zanotti has a good price on the MT and SEST.
Not overkill by any means, but its married to the ecm for life once installed. If you sell your bike it goes with it. Another thing to consider is the fact that any dealer can void your warrinty if they find you are using any tuner other than what MOCO sells and can even void your warrinty with that one. You need a laptop to install and use the master tune or drag your PC to the bike. If on the road and you have a break down and your not sure if the techs will use the digital tech on your bike, you will need to have the lap top with you to re enter the stock map back into your ecm, even then with this if the tech or area rep looks for the mastertune software in the digital technition the mastertune leaves a digital foot print and if they know what to look for they can find it and can deny your warrinty if the claim is engine related or electrical. The PCV can be installed with out any tools and uninstalled with out tools in minutes and leaves no foot print on the road or close to home. The mastertune has the edge on all the current aftermarket tunners to pull the most out of your stock ecm and is a good tuning tool. I run a PCV now and when warrinty is over more than likely will do cams and heads and add the mastertune. Doc
 

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I have no experience with the PC-V but I've used TTS on almost all of my bikes. TTS is a great tuner and will allow you to get the most out of your bike. That said, it really depends on what you want out of a tuner and how you ride your bike. Since you're just doing a Stage 1, the PC-V will definitely do the job. I mod my bikes so the TTS is a great tool but I've had bikes where I throw on a set of slip-on's, a high flow kit, and a fuel pack and call it a day.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Well maybe I should go the PC-V route just for warranty reasons since I did purchase an extended warranty. After the warranty is over then maybe look at the TTS since I really don't think I'll do engine work before the warranty runs out anyway and don't really need the adjustability. Stage 1 is as far as I plan to go right now anyway.
 

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I have the PCV. I went that route specifically because of the issues related to warranty/service. On my bike, I only have stage 1 upgrades, so the PCV works great for me. Once the warranty is up, and I start considering more involved mods ie; stroker, forced induction, etc, I plan to go with the TTS.
 

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This is a bit off topic but it's relevant. Your warranty is definitely an issue to consider. When you modify an engine, 'chit happens. My friend just rebuilt his Screaming Eagle 110 about 10 days ago. We were leaving on a ride on Sunday and he lost oil pressure. We removed his rocker boxes and lifted the push rods to get to the cam plate and oil pump. With only 300 miles on the new build, his oil pump and cam plate were messed up. Of course, no warranty! It cost him about $600 to replace the parts and we did the labor in his driveway. If you're gonna mess with your bike, be prepared to pay if something goes wrong. Weather it's a tune, pipes or major head work, MoCo has the right to reject a claim if you mess with your bike. Also, ANY TUNE can be detected by a qualified person.
 

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even then with this if the tech or area rep looks for the mastertune software in the digital technition the mastertune leaves a digital foot print and if they know what to look for they can find it and can deny your warrinty if the claim is engine related or electrical. The PCV can be installed with out any tools and uninstalled with out tools in minutes and leaves no foot print on the road or close to home. The mastertune has the edge on all the current aftermarket tunners to pull the most out of your stock ecm and is a good tuning tool. I run a PCV now and when warrinty is over more than likely will do cams and heads and add the mastertune. Doc
According to Steve at TTS, the MasterTune is not detectable with the digital tech.
and as far as I know, most dealers don't care if you have a tuner on your bike... hell, THEY install them themselves!
 

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According to Steve at TTS, the MasterTune is not detectable with the digital tech.
and as far as I know, most dealers don't care if you have a tuner on your bike... hell, THEY install them themselves!
Dealers can scan the ECM and tell the map has been changed. I don't think they can tell which tuning device was used.

It's probably true that most dealers don't care what tuning device has been used...until a warranty issue comes up that might involve the engine or ECM.
 

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According to Steve at TTS, the MasterTune is not detectable with the digital tech.
and as far as I know, most dealers don't care if you have a tuner on your bike... hell, THEY install them themselves!
Yes, you are correct. Steve can do this because he's the guy who developed the SE tuner for Harley Davidson. A few weeks ago I had breakfast with Steve and we were discussing this topic. He told me that any tune can be detected without exception. It mostly depends on the equipment and how deep the tech wants to dig. He told me that anyone who claims that their tuner is completely undetectable is a liar. He explained in detail the various ways to detect a tune. He told me that the best way to get away with it is to take the original tuner off the bike and replace it with another. Add your aftermarket tune to the new tuner and put your original in a safe place. If anything ever goes wrong, put your original tuner back on the bike. Steve is a pioneer in automotive tuning. He's worked with companies like Predator and he knows his chit. I've known him for about 5 years and he's always been right.
 

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If you have a good dealer not much to worry about. On the other hand it would suck to be 2000 miles from home and have a problem and be at the mercy of a dealer who did not know you. I am confident my dealer would take care of me, I am not confident that any other dealer would.
 

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If you have a good dealer not much to worry about. On the other hand it would suck to be 2000 miles from home and have a problem and be at the mercy of a dealer who did not know you. I am confident my dealer would take care of me, I am not confident that any other dealer would.
That was my thought...plus I have good dealer and they use the SEPST so that is what I went with. No complaints from me.
 

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Yes, you are correct. Steve can do this because he's the guy who developed the SE tuner for Harley Davidson. A few weeks ago I had breakfast with Steve and we were discussing this topic. He told me that any tune can be detected without exception. It mostly depends on the equipment and how deep the tech wants to dig. He told me that anyone who claims that their tuner is completely undetectable is a liar. He explained in detail the various ways to detect a tune. He told me that the best way to get away with it is to take the original tuner off the bike and replace it with another. Add your aftermarket tune to the new tuner and put your original in a safe place. If anything ever goes wrong, put your original tuner back on the bike. Steve is a pioneer in automotive tuning. He's worked with companies like Predator and he knows his chit. I've known him for about 5 years and he's always been right.

I do not think that any piggyback controler like the PCV leaves a footprint when removed. Doc
 

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I do not think that any piggyback controler like the PCV leaves a footprint when removed. Doc
I don't know how to respond because I'm no expert on tuners. Steve Cole is one of the leading experts in the country and I'm repeating my conversation with him. Steve told me that if you use a piggy back controller, the ECU will be missing the data that was on the piggy back tuner. A smart tech will see the gap and be able to identify it. Again, I'm not arguing with you but I'm repeating my conversation with Steve.
 

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Ask Steve to prove that fact. Not trying to be a jerk. or start a fight I have never seen that problem or has Dyno Jet. Maybe I am wrong but I would love to see that info I have never seen that and some of my big motor builds that make over 185 hp I use both TTS and Power Commander.
for tuning. Right now I am working with a another company that will write on the fly to the ECU and do everything that the TTS and Power Commander can do. with out all the turning on/off the bike and saving files etc.... that a TTs does to upload and download, It will write to the ecu no piggyback unit again on the fly. I hope when this testing is all down it will be for sale in 6 months...
Can not tell anyone who it is but they do a lot of car stuffffff........
No offense taken. Steve is a personal friend and I can't say to him "A guy on the internet disagrees with you and want's you to prove it." You wouldn't say that to a friend either. Like I previously stated, I'm no expert and I'm just repeating the substance of our informal conversation. Steve personally tuned my bike a few weeks ago and we were just shooting the shit over breakfast. I can't defend him because I don't know enough so I'm going to bow out of this conversation without taking sides. I'm not copping out but I can't offer any more to this thread.
 
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