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Discussion Starter #1
Just curious. I purchased the Auto Tune Pro kit for my power vision. Anyone using it versus the auto tune basic. It is all its hyped up to be. Installing this weekend. Anyone have tips on running all cables.

thanks.
 

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Just curious. I purchased the Auto Tune Pro kit for my power vision. Anyone using it versus the auto tune basic. It is all its hyped up to be. Installing this weekend. Anyone have tips on running all cables.

thanks.


I'm running the pro version. It runs a lot smoother and a seems to be stronger. I bought mine used for less than 200 bucks. I don't think it's worth full pop IMO. The basic did a really good job.
 

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So I'm curious...

My understanding is that the Pro AT module only works for Logging and for Auto tuning. Once you've autotuned, the module is just sitting there doing nothing. That the PV (and more specifically) and ECM can not use the wide bands.

So if you guys tuned with Pro, did you then modify your maps and monitor at richer settings, then lock it all down in Open Loop?

BTW - Pat123 I've got the same opinion, not worth $400, and I've been keeping my eyes peeled for a used set like you got. I figure most will use it to tune, then remove it and shelve it.
 

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I believe the Autotune Pro stays on the bike. It uses the 18mm bungs for O2 sensors and constantly monitors A/F, fuel levels, etc. It is plugged into the ECM and makes changes 'real-time'. The Autotune Basic is in the Power Vision and is used to monitor and adjust a map that is then saved to the PV and downloaded to the ECM. :D
The AT unit can stay on the bike. But it's serving no value unless you are Autotuning, or Data Logging. AT Pro plugs in and communicates directly with the PowerVision unit.

When the engine is running, it runs off the ECM exclusively and the PV unit, if plugged in it's passively reading data off the ECM (for Gauge functions).

The only real time function a PV unit can impart on the ECM when the engine is running is Idle speed adjustment, and this was added with the latest Firmware update. All Mapping, modifying, quick tune etc requires the ECM to be powered on and Engine Off.

IF you have a PowerCommander you can use the AT unit in real time and take advantage of the wide bands O2's.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
The auto tune only works when you are in auto tune mode on the power vision. It does not change air fuel ratios in your base tune. It only makes changes to your front and rear volumetric efficiency tables. Auto tune setts the entire base air/fuel chart to 13.1:1. It then uses the wide band sensors to measure exact af ratios and then makes changes to your ve tables to match what mods you have done to the bike ie exhaust intake cams etc. You ride, it makes ve changes where needed. You export the changes to the power vision and flash the tune. Now your ecu uses the correct ve tables to set proper duty cycles for the injectors so they will achieve the air fuel ratios set in your a/f table.

So. Will it make your bike ru better, yes. Does it actually create new base a/f table to make best hp and tq. No. Itis only a means to achieve correct air fuel ratio based on air flow of mods you have done. Lets say your base a/f table is all set to 13.8 for all loads and rpms. With correct ve tables, if the a/f chart is calling for 13.8, the real time a/f in the exhaust will be 13.8. You can use winpv to tweak you af tables once auto tune corrects the ve tables

Now, you can use the wide bands to monitor real time af ratios in the exhaust with the powe vision. It just doesnt control anything in the ecm.

Sent from Motorcycle.com Free App
 

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does the auto tune pro get married to the PV or the ECM? I have a friend who has one I wonder if I could just borrow his?
The AT pro does not lock to a given ECM or Powervision. The wide band sensors biggest asset are the ability to accurately adjust VE tables to obtain AFR ratios outside the range of your narrow band sensors. Any map pressure above 70 KPa needs a richer mixture than stock sensors can measure, so without that ability you are relying on the base map loaded to be sufficient. If your engine combination is very close to what that basemap was built on you may not see much difference with AT pro. You would tune with the pro system then choose if you want to run in open loop continuously or use closed loop setting. Even in closed loop setting your ECM will use the open loop tables anytime the engine load requires, and they will be spot on for your engine if adjusted by the AT pro.
 

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The AT pro does not lock to a given ECM or Powervision. The wide band sensors biggest asset are the ability to accurately adjust VE tables to obtain AFR ratios outside the range of your narrow band sensors. Any map pressure above 70 KPa needs a richer mixture than stock sensors can measure, so without that ability you are relying on the base map loaded to be sufficient. If your engine combination is very close to what that basemap was built on you may not see much difference with AT pro. You would tune with the pro system then choose if you want to run in open loop continuously or use closed loop setting. Even in closed loop setting your ECM will use the open loop tables anytime the engine load requires, and they will be spot on for your engine if adjusted by the AT pro.
That is exactly what my conclusion is. With AT Pro you can use the Widebands to monitor and confirm your AFRs are what you want, and this is particularly good if you want to run a richer mix across the board (open loop for the narrows). In particular I wonder what is really happening with my tune because I know the VE's for the rear cylinder will max out at 127.5 every single time I autotune... so what do I really get when I'm in open loop under load? Hell if I know... At least with the AT Pro you can run in Log mode and evaluate.
 

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That is exactly what my conclusion is. With AT Pro you can use the Widebands to monitor and confirm your AFRs are what you want, and this is particularly good if you want to run a richer mix across the board (open loop for the narrows). In particular I wonder what is really happening with my tune because I know the VE's for the rear cylinder will max out at 127.5 every single time I autotune... so what do I really get when I'm in open loop under load? Hell if I know... At least with the AT Pro you can run in Log mode and evaluate.
What area are you getting the 127.5 readings? If in the 40 KPa and above I would scale the map. If in 30 KPa or less area it is probably trying to adjust a reversion problem.
 

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What area are you getting the 127.5 readings? If in the 40 KPa and above I would scale the map. If in 30 KPa or less area it is probably trying to adjust a reversion problem.
Above 60kpa - I have scaled couple times and it just keeps on maxing out these cells. So I stopped started over, scaled once and cap now. I think I'm at 113Cubes now. Its' also a very peaky character, 3500-4000 rows only.
 

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Question on PV 1

I am also a newbie to the PV-1. When I change out my exhaust headers do I run both the 12 and 18 sensors or only use the 18's? I am not clear on this and am close to getting the headers this coming month. thank you all.
 

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I am also a newbie to the PV-1. When I change out my exhaust headers do I run both the 12 and 18 sensors or only use the 18's? I am not clear on this and am close to getting the headers this coming month. thank you all.
The OEM ECM will ONLY work with the 12mm's. Period.

If you buy the AT Pro kit for Power Vision the 18mm's are used strictly in a passive monitoring mode. The ECM can NOT use them.

So, IF you get AT Pro, you can use the 18's, then remove them once you're done tuning.
 

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I get that the auto tune pro can read the Air fuel ratio and then the power vision uses that information to make the proper map. My question is how do you know what is the best air fuel ratio for your engine that will make the best power with out having a dyno to measure power.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I get that the auto tune pro can read the Air fuel ratio and then the power vision uses that information to make the proper map. My question is how do you know what is the best air fuel ratio for your engine that will make the best power with out having a dyno to measure power.
You cant without a dyno, but you can get it close. Im not really using auto tune to get best power, but best ridability. I used fuel motos map to auto tune with to perfect it and then played around with my air/fuel ratio table until I got it good enough to suit my needs. Im running 13.1 in most of the mid-cruise range of the table. Mostly to keep things cool. Fuel motos map is leaner.

Auto tune, is not a end all be all tuning solution. What it will do is correct the volumetric efficiency table for front and rear cyclinders to match your the flow of your AC/exhaust/cam combo. The ECU then uses this new VE table to keep the set A:F exactly what you have it set to in the A:F table. You can then display real time A:F from the wide bands on the power vision to monitor what your A:F ratio is actually reading. Once you done some good long auto tune sessions, your A:F should be reading exactly or very close to what you set them to in the A:F table.

In simpler terms, after doing a good auto tune session, If you were to set the intire A:F table to 13.1, then you should be seeing 13.1 displayed by the wide bands on the power vision at every rpm/throttle (MAP) combination.

Now, if you want your tune perfect for the best power possible, your still going to need a dyno to measure power. But you've pretty much got half the work already done for your tuner person.
 

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I get that the auto tune pro can read the Air fuel ratio and then the power vision uses that information to make the proper map. My question is how do you know what is the best air fuel ratio for your engine that will make the best power with out having a dyno to measure power.
On average a safe a/f ratio on most motors is 12.8 to 13, and is normally the target most dyno tuners will try to maintain at heavy engine loads for max power. At lighter load cruising ranges a much leaner mixture is used (13.8 to 14.1) to prevent cylinder wall oil film dilution (the cause of rapid cylinder wear) and also reduce carbon build-up on pistons and combustion chambers.
 
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