[Halstem1]

^ Boys, boys... no need to get into a pissing match.

You are both kinda right, other than arguing over the use of the term "parasitic". Power Vision is a flash tuner, as it does not stay on the bike and relay through the ECM. But it does not actually replace all of the calibrations in the ECM, like I understand the TTS to do. As REDMTRCKL said, it makes limited changes (VE Table) to the ECM to achieve the desired result. The following is taken from DynoJet Power Vision user manual.

"In the case of a Harley engine management system, we fix the error by adjusting
the Volumetric Efficiency tables"

 

[REDMTRCKL]

Then where does it store the new information.


Parasitic means always connected. PERIOD Look up the definition of parasite.

A Power Vision is a FLASH tuner.

TTS actually does a low level re-format of the ecm when it overwrites the OEM calibration. This means that it has complete control over all of the ECM's functions although we are not allowed access to all of it. PV cannot do this because they don't have the code or permission to do so.. PV can only flash a portion of the ECM therefore it must either fool the ecm's computing processes or bypass these low level events altogether. I will continue to consider it a parasitic program for the simple fact that it is not unique and has only copied some what others have already done.

 

[Boxercop]

Well I feel like the kid that had one biology class and is listening to a debate between Doctors using latin... Had several PMs with the OP and I think we both are pretty lost. For me I want the bike to run smooth, gain power, lose heat, and sound good. I would like this to happen without having to tune, tweak, or make changes all the time.

From what I THINK I know the thundermax replaces the ECM and I worry about warranty issues or someone not knowing how to work on that if something happens. The PV is cheaper as well and why I am leaning that way. All of this im still on the fence on so I will get my notebook and start taking notes like a good student....

 

[mocotom]

TTS actually does a low level re-format of the ecm when it overwrites the OEM calibration. This means that it has complete control over all of the ECM's functions although we are not allowed access to all of it. PV cannot do this because they don't have the code or permission to do so.. PV can only flash a portion of the ECM therefore it must either fool the ecm's computing processes or bypass these low level events altogether. I will continue to consider it a parasitic program for the simple fact that it is not unique and has only copied some what others have already done.

You seem very informed on the differences and abilities of these two systems. Do you work for a dyno shop? I'm just trying to learn more about Harleys.

 

[tdkkart]

TTS actually does a low level re-format of the ecm when it overwrites the OEM calibration. This means that it has complete control over all of the ECM's functions although we are not allowed access to all of it. PV cannot do this because they don't have the code or permission to do so.. PV can only flash a portion of the ECM therefore it must either fool the ecm's computing processes or bypass these low level events altogether. I will continue to consider it a parasitic program for the simple fact that it is not unique and has only copied some what others have already done.

You're starting to sound like someone with a bone to pick, and someone that does so with only 7 posts, most of them regarding the TTS product, makes me very suspicious.

Just saying...........

I've read thousands of posts on the PV, first time I've heard it refered to as a "parasitic" tuner??

 

[Rooster1]

I have been tuning my own bikes for 35 years. Currently running the Power Vision on my '13 RGU. I got it from the guys at Fuelmoto. Easy to use and set up. Came with the map from Fuelmoto all ready installed. Works great for me, thats what counts.


Sent from Motorcycle.com Free App

 

[gscojo]

Had my motor built to 103 w/ cams, intake, and slip-ons. My tuner tuned it using a SERT. Runs flawless. By flawless I mean that from idle to 6200 rpm (current red-line) is very smooth with no stumbles. On decel there is no popping whatsoever. Runs cool. Makes decent power. I don't have to fiddle with anything.
If I ever change anything in the motor I will take it back to him and have it Dynoed again and will get a reduced rate because he's already been through it and it will only require some tweaking.
Happy Camper.

 

[Soonerglide]

I personally have the Fuel Moto product on my bike. Love it. Im not a motorhead and this thing was simple, easy and pretty much dumbass proof. My "butt dyno" says it made a noticeable difference in throttle response, more grunt, motor runs cooler and that is all that I cared about in the beginning. In the end, Im the only one that rides it and Im the only one that has to like what I bought. All the noise about this tuner vs that tuner.....blah blah. Everybody has a opinion and in the end , that and a quarter will buy you a cup o coffee. Fuel Moto is reliable, it works, its reasonable on the wallett and they are nice folks to work with. You will and can shop and shop and shop until you are so confused you don't know whether to scratch your ass or wind your watch.

 

[Rooster1]

Snip... You will and can shop and shop and shop until you are so confused you don't know whether to scratch your ass or wind your watch.

Wind your watch? Man you are showing your geezerness

 

[Ksilver01]

I've been researching all of them and I agree its a tough decision. It seems that the decision is made by the dealer and what they will not flip out about what you have installed if you would need work done on your bike and the other factor is what dyno tuners you have around your area and what they support. I had a pcv on my previous bike with a dyno tune. They had the exact map and when I had it dynod for piece of mind it was off. After much research in all of it there is a fine line between fuel and timing to get you bike to run right and cool without sacrificing mpg by someone just throwing fuel and not timing. I've looked at all of them all they all have some pros and cons. I'm considering the cobra tuner. But I'm just doing a stage 1. My buddy has one and loves it. I'm still torn though. My head is spinning also.

 

[Ksilver01]

Spoke to a very reputable dyno tuner in my area pcv

 

[rageglide]

TTS actually does a low level re-format of the ecm when it overwrites the OEM calibration. This means that it has complete control over all of the ECM's functions although we are not allowed access to all of it. PV cannot do this because they don't have the code or permission to do so.. PV can only flash a portion of the ECM therefore it must either fool the ecm's computing processes or bypass these low level events altogether. I will continue to consider it a parasitic program for the simple fact that it is not unique and has only copied some what others have already done.

To preface... I like TTS, I've used it in the past and I know it's eaiser to find a good tuner who uses TTS than it is to find a Power Vision tuner. Lots of Power Commander savvy tuners out there too, but Power Vision is not something many are familiar with.

TTS can't do a low level format of the device unless it has the ability to completely ground up rebuild the entire ECM firmware. No way Harley has given TTS full access to their ECM Firmware. All manufactures make 3rd parties sign agreements to not reverse engineer or work with their firmware/software in any other manner than allowed by the manufacturer. If TTS was able to perform a low level format they would have the ability to format a brand new ECM from the ground up with any VIN info they want... or for that matter wipe a stolen ECM and use TTS to build it again with your old VIN... No way, no how.

TTS may rewrite every cell in a table and utilize a strategy (ie MT8) which is not compatible with Harley's Digital Tech, which typically locks the ECM. Maybe that's what you are calling "low level format". But zero'ing out each of the fields in the tables that TTS is *allowed* to touch and rewriting each cell again is nothing special. What's the difference between zeroing out every field then rewriting every field and Power Vision changing only the cells that are different in the same table? TTS may add rows in a table which PV may not know about, but I'm not sure about that because I've seen new rows show up where previously they weren't available. PowerVision adds more function and exposes more tables on a continual basis, just like TTS. Power Vision may not have the ability to alter every one of the tables TTS alters, but it's only because they haven't exposed them or the underlying software manages the tables differently internally.

Regarding the "parasitic" comment. Power Vision does not have any code that runs on the ECM, so, when you feed it a map, it replaces the values in the table that have been modified. If you use Power Visions "Quick Tune" you can make a delta change to the existing map in similar fashion to the Power Commander piggy back tuners, but it's still flashing a new value into the same Map that TTS alters. A VE table entry of 96 is 96 with either TTS or PV, or DirectLink. TTS uses a windows computer to program the ECM, Power Vision uses a Linux based computer. They are effectively no different.

*Intercept* tuners, like PowerCommanders, intercept and alter the signal to trick the ECM into output desired values. I too am not a fan of piggyback tuners, other than their ability to be completely removed as needed.

 

[slinger]

Power vision here too. As with some others, I had a heat issues even after downloading a generic map. I used to auto tune feature and it seems to run better. Think I will do what FBU did and send them a map to tweak. This thing will do everything and it has the feature of being able to grow.

 

[HD-DOC]

I went the route for dummies,On my 2011 Limited I used SE A/C, CVO MUfflers with 2" Ful Sac Baffles and De catted head pipe, Nightrider Vied FL running that at 50% and all is good, no cams or other upgrades in the future. Works for me, Iam 64 and do not need to have it all. Cheapest way to go for more cooling and better trottle response.
Doc

 

[rphawaii]

I tuned my V-Rod with PV after installing Tab pipes it was simple, it worked and I kept the PV after I traded the bike because I can (for a fee) use it on my new RGC. They have what they are calling Power Vision License Programs
three different levels are available for more info check their site. I'm not saying one is better than the other, just this is what I have.